How managers unlock neurodiverse talent for real results

Steve: When you're working in a social enterprise environment, and you're doing the work that, certainly, we do at auticon, you see that on a daily basis. And it's extremely humbling, at times, but, overridingly, it's amazingly rewarding.
Jimmy: Welcome back to The Ways of Working podcast, your weekly dose of practical tips for senior leaders who are looking for a performance edge, without burning themselves or their teams out.
Jimmy: Today, we're talking to Steve Hill. Steve is a Commercial Director at auticon UK, a unique multinational IT consultancy and social enterprise with a little bit of a difference, that it in that it exclusively employs autistic adults as IT consultants. Welcome, Steve.
Steve: Thanks, Jimmy, a pleasure to be here. Thank you for the invitation.
Jimmy: I'm genuinely so excited to have you on the podcast. I know we've had a couple of conversations previously, and I think listeners are going to love some of the ideas that you have to share today. I want to get straight into it, and your career has been an amazing mixture of huge multinational organisations, IBM, Samsung, and, most recently, McLaren, for those of you who are into Formula 1. What prompted the change from Formula 1 racing and performance to auticon and employing autistic adults? What drove that change?
Steve: So, I guess that the there's been a consistent thread and yes, my career has been a little bit off-piste at times, but I guess I've always been in and around tech, whether it's been serving the tech industry from my own business perspective, or actually being right in the middle of the tech industry, obviously, with some of the names that you mentioned, but I guess it's very much about being in the heart of, you know, cloud, security, data and analytics. And actually, from an auticon perspective, that thread runs through. So, we've grown up as an IT consulting firm, so part of my role is actually to really lift the lid on some of the projects that we get involved in, and to understand the technicals. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm techy, but I I know enough to actually be able to understand and then to be able to make sure that we translate those technical requirements in a way that makes sure that we put our best consultants into the right environment.
Jimmy: I think that's so interesting, that bridging of people and technology is something that I think keeps coming up in the modern age, and especially with, obviously, all the things that are going on, and all the AI and technology developments that we're seeing happen right now. What was it that prompted you to move into auticon, what was it that attracted you to the business, and what was the compelling reason to to shift?
Steve: So, I could probably answer that with one word actually, Jimmy, and that being 'purpose'. I think, you know, certainly as you go through your career, and you work for different organisations, whether they're big companies, small companies, I think you, as an individual, you gain that experience, and some of the things that you're looking for in your career, they change. And I think, for me, it's purpose, it's making sure that some of the things that I was able to contribute and create value was around other people, that the social aspect, and actually being able to make a positive difference to the lives of others, which may sound a little bit cliché, but actually, when you're working in a social enterprise environment, and you're doing the work that, certainly, we do at auticon, you see that on a daily basis. And it's extremely humbling at times, but overridingly, it's amazingly rewarding for the people that you're working with and for in the organisation, but also for the clients that we work with, as well. It's just fantastic.
Jimmy: I'm passionate, as you know, about that area of purpose and the idea of supporting people who need it. So, let's dig into that a little bit more. Tell us about the types of people that you work with and how you support clients using the teams that you create.
Steve: So, we've been around for 11 years, and, I guess, the reason I mention that is the company, quite unusually, I think, was founded really out of a parent's anxiety for their child. And what I mean by that is that everyone that we employ from technologists {slash} consultant perspective is autistic. And so, there is a huge chasm between the end of education and the start of the workplace. And that link is really filled with anxiety. And so, we were founded on exactly that principle, and so what we try and do is to make sure that we don't necessarily bridge it 100%, but we can make sure we provide a destination for those autistic adults who have a STEM background, where we can actually help by taking them on as full-time employees, and looking for the right consulting engagements such that we can augment client projects. And I think there is definitely a commercial advantage to that, in the first instance, because we tend to specialise in data-related projects, whether it be data analysis, data engineering, visualisation, or maybe the more complex data science requirement, but also things like cyber security analysis and and software design. So, those areas where we tend to specialise is where there is a skills gap, not just in the UK, but, moreover, it's globally. And so, that's one aspect of what we do, but this is about creating a case study. This is the layer on top which is much more important, or equally as important, because what we're doing is showing the organisation that it isn't a big, scary thing to be working with someone with autism. If it was super easy, then we wouldn't be required, clearly. But it's also about making sure that we can take that and use it as a way to show the organisation of, not only that it isn't a big, scary thing, so we're mitigating fear and risk, but also to try and highlight the fact that there are some unconscious biases that are baked into hiring practices, which maybe stop organisations unknowingly being able to tap into a rich seam of talent. And so, it's about showing, not telling, from our perspective, and helping organisations on the journey. And it is a journey, this isn't necessarily a quick fix, you know, neurodiversity, in the last couple of years, has gained tremendous momentum, which is fantastic, but I guess in the D&I space, it's always played sort of runner-up to the likes of gender and ethnicity. And certainly, you know, we've been at this a long time, comparatively speaking, 11 years, neurodiversity was a very kind of unrecognised concept back in the day, in terms of organisations. And so, I think, for us, it's about that awareness, it's the education, it's the lived experience, but ultimately, our view is that we want to try and make ourselves redundant with that organisation as quickly as we can, because what we want to be able to do, and societal change and shift only really comes from enabling our clients to do what we do themselves. We don't want to be working with organisations ultimately for five or 10 years, because if we are, you could look at it as a bit of a failure on our part. You know, we want to be able to take them on a journey so they can attract, recruit, retain, and develop their own neurodiverse staff. And there's a long way to go, clearly, in lots of different areas, so, hopefully, we're not going to be making ourselves redundant anytime soon, but that's ultimately our goal.
Jimmy: I mean, there's so many things I want to dig into on this topic. And one of the pieces that to me is a critical consideration of senior leaders and organisations at the moment, well the two considerations: number one, how do I find the performance edge that keeps our organisation ahead of the pack, ahead of our competition, and performing at a high level? Number two is, where do I find great talent who can help me achieve these objectives? Because we know there's things like The Great Resignation happening. We know that talent wars are happening in the technology space, the STEM space, especially. What, in terms of the unique skill sets and the unique approach that autistic consultants bring to an organisation, do you believe is the highest value proposition for a senior leadership team who are thinking about, "How do we get that performance edge? What's that unique value proposition the autistic consultants can bring?"
Steve: So, I I think it falls into two parts, actually, Jimmy. The first part is with neurodiversity comes a different perspective, it's a different way of thinking, which, clearly, from an organisational point of view, if you're looking to attract the same type of person, in inverted commas, you're going to get the same type of output and the same type of results. So, by broadening that approach and having a more diverse team, arguably, there will be different results. And that's, I guess, that the overriding benefit. Now, in terms of the individuals, now, not everyone with autism has maybe a leaning towards computer science or, indeed, you know, the STEM subjects, but what we're looking for from our consultants, when we take them through our recruitment process, is not only an aspect of technical competence, which doesn't necessarily have to be underwritten by exams, by the way, it can be self-taught, but it's also looking at the cognitive skills of that individual. And what I mean by that is that the autism, or the phrase, 'autism spectrum', tends to conjure up a very linear scale in terms of maybe one end, someone being very autistic, and not very autistic at the other end. Well, it's not quite like that, and what we talk about is things like the spiky profile, and there's different measures and different axes which we look for. And again, there's no right or wrong answer, this is just to make sure that we get a really good picture of what that person could and should be doing, based on the cognitive abilities that they have. So, again, things like pattern matching, error detection, logical analysis, periods of sustained concentration, and if you take some of those cognitive abilities, and you combine that with the technical or academic abilities and backgrounds that our consultants have, it's a really potent combination. And I think, you know, for us, again, it's about making sure that we're setting up that particular project for success. Now, what we don't want to do, and we don't do this at all, we don't interview our candidates, our consultants, when they're coming through the process, because there is absolutely no correlation between how someone can perform in an interview environment, you know, this is a shop window, a live performing shop window scenario, where you can effectively bend, influence, manipulate the truth, arguably, to affect the outcome of that interview, and it's based wholly really on social skills and your ability to think on your feet. Well, people with autism sometimes require slightly longer processing time, so in an environment where they could be presented with one, two, or three, or even a panel of interviewers asking questions that they have no prior knowledge or awareness of, that extra processing time can come across as a pregnant pause, can create uncomfortableness in that environment, and it's just not really an environment is showcasing the ability of that individual. And it's for us it's much more about what that a person could and should be doing. We've got consultants that have got really patchy, you know, CVs, either through burnout, mental health, or just a period at which you know, they may have been affected by bullying, or the environment that they haven't been able to disclose, or the company that they've worked for previously hasn't had the tools to be able to support them, because they're not aware of how to support. So, I guess, from our perspective, it's just trying to shape or reshape the narrative around the, you know, some of those recruitment processes.
Jimmy: I think the the concept of what you've talked about there is what every senior leadership team should be striving to achieve for all employees, realistically. You talk about the concept of meeting employees where they're at versus asking them to jump through. So you talk about strengths-based analysis, and what are the unique skills and capabilities that this individual is bringing and where can we deploy that set of skills and capabilities most effectively into an organisation. There's no reason why we can't do that with non-neurodiverse people. And, in fact, if you look at neurodiversity as a a much wider spectrum than perhaps we might consider it, everybody is neurodiverse to a certain extent, they're just way down this end of the scale versus the people that are recognised as being or labelled as being neurodiverse. So why would we not do that with everybody? Why would we not have all employees strengths-based analysis, deploy when where their skills are best met, and meet their mental health and performance needs, based on great leadership, based on care, based on humanity. I think some of the things you're talking about that we hope we make ourselves redundant, I hope you don't in a way until you've shifted cultures of organisations globally to thinking about not just neurodiversity and the commercial advantage, but also the employee engagement advantage and the happiness quotient advantage. There's a real opportunity there that I think is worth paying attention to even if you're not considering employing neurodiverse employees, that actually it affects all employees.
Steve: 100%, Jimmy. You're absolutely right. And we bring, you know, some of this awareness, education through the lens of neurodiversity, but, frankly, these are things that apply to everyone. You're absolutely correct. I mean, when we're sort of setting up for a project, we have a job coach. They're not technical, they're not project managers, they are all with a background in clinical psychology, and they will actually meet with the immediate team that our consultant will be working with, and they will do some basic awareness training. And this can be: what are the components of neurodiversity, they will bring it back to that individual, in terms of the simple adjustments that a person may require, whether it's camera on, camera off in Teams meetings, and things like that. But actually, what they're also there to do is to figure out the unwritten rules of the office, so, for example, yeah, in daily stand-up call or a weekly project review call, what is the expectation of our consultant? Is it to be in listen-only mode? Is it to question? Is it to present? You know, what are the dynamics of that team? And for, and I hate using the word 'neurotypical', but non-autistic adults, it's fairly quick for us to figure out the dynamics in that situation, quite often, but that can be a source of great anxiety for those people with autism, and so it's about de-risking it. And, again, who wouldn't want to know that, going into an organisation? Who wouldn't want to know the kind of team structure? Who wouldn't want to know the unwritten rules, the kind of social rules of the kind of office or team environment? This is just good practice, frankly, and this is about helping people become better managers, because in many large organisations, it's assumed that everyone wants to be promoted, and maybe that's a big wrong assumption to start with, but actually it's also about people that are promoted within an organisation are often given that extra responsibility of people or line management, but not everyone gets that training as to how to be a good people manager, and, obviously, people have different levels of emotional intelligence and things like empathy and kindness, particularly in maybe very sales-driven organisations can be seen as a sign of weakness. And I think we're sort of here to say that that's not the case. Yeah, everyone is an individual and everyone should be treated as such, and to get the best out of people and the best out of teams, it's about having that kind of broader, emotional intelligence-based management style, perhaps.
Jimmy: I couldn't agree more, and I know you and I have spoke about previously what we do in the Ways of Working Programme around setting up the team charter, which is exactly that. You know, what are our unwritten rules? How do we deal with conflict? How do we celebrate success? How do we learn from failure? How do we operate on a daily basis and communicate when there's a tough message or an easy message? And I think surfacing some of those realities in the way the team operates and works is advantageous again to everybody. Wouldn't it be great if we could all have team observation job coaches who onboarded every new person to the business and helped every new person to assimilate into the culture of that team and that organisation to ease that transition, because surely, I'm guessing there's a reason behind these job coaches, surely, it gets them up to speed quicker. Is that what you found?
Steve: 100%, absolutely. I mean, the time to productivity is reduced dramatically, and, again, who wouldn't want that, both from an individual and an organisational perspective?
Jimmy: Yeah, no, completely. The one of the opportunities in onboarding new staff is to get them productive as quickly as possible, and so removing as many barriers as you can through the onboarding journey, whether they're neurodiverse or not, is clearly going to be commercially successful. And the other big advantage, I'm guessing, you see with the job coaches, is your bounce out rate or your attrition rate of consultants not sticking into the business is presumably reduced, right?
Steve: 100%, and that's one of the things, from our clients' perspective, that we tend to start with. You know, over the last 10, 11 years, a lot of clients have sort of said to us, "Okay, can you help us to attract our own neurodiverse talent?" And the short answer is yes, quickly followed by no, actually, but not flippantly, but the point being that it's about the first step for us is that cultural transformation, I guess, because looking inside the organisation at the existing neurodiverse population has to be really the starting point. It's about creating that culture where individuals feel like they can disclose, and very quickly and in parallel, it's about providing the managers, the HR teams, D&I, the senior leaders, with the tools to be able to support those individuals. It's only when that stage has been recognised and and undertaken can you then start to think about how to attract people into the organisation. It's got to start with retention, frankly.
Jimmy: Well, it sounds like auticon is doing stealth diversity, inclusion, and leadership training just by being in in clients and showing them the way and and supporting them to find new ways of operating. And and all of that is contributing to that performance edge that leaders are desperately searching around for.
Steve: Completely. Yeah, I mean, we sort of, I guess, position ourselves as an 11-year-old proof of concept in a way. This is, you know, we haven't always got it right, we've been growing across different countries, different cultures, and it's about assimilating and bottling some of that know-how, best practice, knowledge across all of the organisation, and actually distilling that into tangible outcomes that organisations can fast-track based on the experience that we have.
Jimmy: No, that's great. Thank you. And if I'm a senior leader, you know, business unit lead, or C-suite, sitting round the table, thinking about the opportunity of neurodiversity, what are some of the things that you've noticed that leadership teams are consistently overlooking? And what are two or three tips, ideas, suggestions that you could get them to think about, that they can take away after this call?
Steve: So, I think it really is typified by fear, in a way, and maybe not knowing where to start. Again, there are maybe lots of different resources available out in the wild, you know, whether it's training, whether it's coaching, but it's about embarking on a journey and recognising the fact that, depending on the size and the maturity of the organisation around its approach to neurodiversity, it could be a lot quicker, or maybe a lot longer. The the oil tanker trying to change direction is sometimes, you know, it's not a quick thing. But I think it's very important to recognise, really, Jimmy, that to get started, effectively, it is to get started, because those organisations that don't necessarily embrace the diversity to be able to even close talent pool gaps, are going to be left behind, and it's more than that, in some ways, because those organisations who don't have a clear narrative around the diversity of their organisation and the social responsibility of the of their organisation, they're going to find it hard to attract any talent, because more and more people want to work for organisations that have that social purpose. They may not be social enterprises like like us, but they want to feel part of a community, an organisation that values them, that has value-driven purpose to the outside world. Yes, everyone needs to earn money for sustainability of their own organisation and growth, but, fundamentally, you can do that in a way that is beneficial to the stakeholders, the employees, and the communities that you serve.
Jimmy: So that just get started and learn by doing, learn by trying, learn by maybe grazing your knees a couple of times, but just by getting started, actually organisations rapidly accelerate, not only, as you say, that gap in the talent market, and start to gather previously overlooked talent pools into their organisation, but also they're going to refine their approach and get better versus trying to plan the perfect solution before they deploy it.
Steve: Exactly. And I think if you add a very healthy spoonful of authenticity to that, then there's no wrong answer. Those organisations that may see maybe from a box-ticking exercise, that's not really the approach. It's got to be through authenticity and commitment.
Jimmy: Thank you for sharing that. And the opportunity, I think, is huge. I'd love to change chat track slightly, because one of the things I read about you and we've discussed previously is that you are actually also quite a celebrated author. And you've got a series of books for children, can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Steve: Absolutely, I wouldn't necessarily use the word 'celebrated', but it's very kind of you doing, thank you. Yet to be proven, but actually, it kind of intertwines nicely with kind of my journey into auticon, and, you know, the this is actually, for me, part of my personal journey, effectively, you know, my youngest son is is dyslexic, and when he was a lot younger, he really, obviously, you know, he struggled with the, I guess, the peer element of finding reading difficult and challenging, but also it created a bit of a blocker to reading. So, actually by coming up with a a maybe slightly different way of creating stories, albeit, you know, back then it was just about, you know, a fun way to try and approach consuming stories by creating them, and coming up with ideas, and it actually helped get him into audiobooks. So, it was one of those things that that became a bit of a, I don't want to use the words 'side hustle', necessarily, because it was never designed to create, you know, income or anything like that. I took the view that if I could help my son in a very, very modest way, then actually it might be useful to others, and not only to produce a series of stories, but to actually have a purpose around it. So, to help parents view maybe through the subtle learning objectives of the stories, the fact that success isn't predicated on, certainly not exam success, through school and education alone, but also, ultimately, that success in life isn't predicated on financial success, either. You know, it's much more important to be happy, in inverted commas, in whatever format that takes, and so it might be slightly ambitious, in some ways, but it's proven that we kind of got to the point now where we've recorded a series of audiobooks that are narrated by Gemma Whelan from Game of Thrones fame, and she's done other stuff with Horrible Histories in the UK, and and things like that, but to bring the characters to life through storytelling. And we're literally just about to to take the first book into print, and we've deliberately designed it in a dyslexic-friendly font. But that during this journey, and my, I guess, my close association with dyslexia, that's where auticon actually came on my radar, because I follow Richard Branson, who is famously dyslexic, and when Richard Branson, Virgin Group invested in auticon back in 2016, and a little lightbulb went off, and so when the opportunity came up to join auticon, it was a real no-brainer for me, frankly, to have that kind of personal connection, that purpose, but also the pride associated with working for an organisation that actually is dedicated to sort of societal change for the good, and to helping, you know, individuals on a very practical shirts sleeves rolled-up way, on a daily basis. So, the books we're going to keep on putting books out, we're going to keep on growing the series of stories in an effort to not only provide entertainment for kids, and and help them getting to reading and enjoy stories, whether that's through audio books or, indeed, printed books, but also to continue to provide that kind of messaging to parents. I had a choppy academic backstory and caused my parents great dissatisfaction at various times, but I think I've done okay, not from a financial point of view, necessarily, but from a position in kind of enjoying tremendously every single day at work. And I feel very privileged and lucky to be in that position. And it's about helping others to maybe redefine how they measure their own success, and base it on things that aren't material-based.
Jimmy: It sounds like you've got a really good, clear alignment as well between your personal purpose and the purpose of your job. And you seem to have integrated those two beautifully, not only from the I guess the prompt in your personal life, but then that affinity for someone like Richard Branson, who's then invested in an organisation who and that's now where you've ended up working. I think there's a lot of people out there who are potentially searching for that same alignment and integration to make themselves feel happier. And I genuinely see that the sense of inner pride that you carry not only with these books, but also with the work you do. And I'm hoping that we can share some links to the books and the website that is making those available in the show notes for this episode. So, absolutely we'd love to steer people in the in the direction of that. Final couple of things, Steve, and this is I guess the, how can people work with auticon? How can they connect with you, and how would that engagement look from starting with perhaps the maturity assessment and working through that process?
Steve: So, from a a consultant perspective, we're always recruiting. I mean, it is very much aligned to our kind of social mission to provide those long-term career opportunities for autistic adults. So, the best way is to hit our careers page. We're, as I say, we're always recruiting, and we have rolling opportunities for, you know, data analysts, data engineers, cyber security analysts, so we'd love to hear from you. We try to make the process as as easy and engaging, and as neuro-inclusive as we possibly can. And from a a client's perspective, we'd love to have a chat. Again, best course is is through our website, or feel free to contact me directly, and we'll maybe share my in the show notes, but we'd love to have a conversation. There is never a bad time to start thinking about an organisation's pathway to neuro-inclusion, and we'd love to help you in whatever modest way, and whatever modest form that might take.
Jimmy: Brilliant. Thanks for that. We will we'll pop your email and the careers site and the website for auticon into the show notes. Final question, Steve, what are you most excited about in home or in work right now?
Steve: It's a great question, Jimmy, and I've been thinking about the the kind of answer to this. I think, for me, it's it's the potential. There's so much to be done, and there's so much opportunity, there's so much evangelism to do around neurodiversity, whether it's in my own way through my books, and then sort of helping parents and and kids, but through auticon, the the message amplification, it goes on and on and on, and we are very lucky that, you know, we've managed to get ourselves into a position now where we are well-represented in most parts of the world, and we've got the internal structure, culture of pride and camaraderie to really create a movement. This isn't necessarily just a business, this is a movement of trying to help organisations to be aware and to do what's right for the kind of greater good.
Jimmy: What a great thing to be excited about, something bigger than ourselves. I always think that's the most exciting thing to be excited about, because it's contributing to a greater purpose, and as you and I are very aligned on, the sense of purpose is important. Steve, thank you so much for not only coming on the podcast as a guest, but also for sharing such immense value around the ideas of neurodiversity, the commercial impact of employing neurodiverse people, the performance edge that businesses can gain, and some practical tips on just get started. I really like that. Thank you so much.
Steve: A pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Jimmy: And if you enjoyed this podcast, please take a moment to rate and review it on whatever platform you listened on. It does help us to know what you think and to connect us with more incredible leaders who are looking for that performance edge. We genuinely appreciate any comments, feedback, and it helps us to continue to deliver practical insights in new, innovative ways. If you've got any questions for Steve or myself, please reach out using the links in the show notes. Other than that, please hit us up on Instagram or LinkedIn, and we'd love to have a conversation.
Jimmy: That's a wrap for this episode of The Ways of Working podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, make sure to hit the subscribe or follow button on your podcast platform, so you don't miss our upcoming episodes. And if you have a moment, please leave us a review with your thoughts on Apple Podcasts or your favourite podcast app. Your feedback helps us improve and grow our community of senior leaders seeking a performance edge. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next episode.