How managers shift from expert to influential leader

Bec: You kind of need to understand the environment, but you need to understand how the people are operating in that environment. So as a leader, that's what I really kind of encourage my team to do, because there's no point in kind of designing processes and changing systems and working on development programs unless you actually understand what's going to be meaningful for people, but at the same time relevant for the organisation.
Jimmy: Welcome back to the Ways of Working Podcast, your weekly dose of practical tips for senior leaders who are looking for a performance edge without burning themselves or their teams out.
Today, we're talking with General Manager, Talent and Organisational Development at the SkyCity Entertainment Group, Rebecca Grover. Rebecca, hi.
Bec: Hello. Thank you for having me, Jimmy. Good to see you.
Jimmy: Now should it be Bec or Rebecca? Which one- Bec, call me Bec. Let's keep it informal. Call me Bec. Okay, great. Fantastic. Thanks for coming on the podcast today. It's really exciting to have you on, and also, I know that what we're going to talk about today is going to be really interesting to our listeners. I want to get straight into it, and your career has been a mixture of different environments. So, as you mentioned, you've worked in a startup, you've worked in outsourcing, you've worked in small-to-medium-sized businesses, large corporate organisations, and you've been a consultant. What I wanted to understand is as you've gone through that career journey picking up different strings to your bow, different tools for the tool box, what have been the consistent leadership themes that you have seen or developed that have stood you in great stead to get to where you are now?
Bec: Yeah, that's a great question, because the the common thread, I think, is it's all been about people. So, I guess irrespective of the environment and the organisational type, you're dealing with people. Now, the only differential is how much of that people strategy or that people engagement you can actually influence. So, people will always be human, and that's why I have now adapted my kind of philosophy that everything needs to be people-first. You kind of need to understand the environment, but you need to understand how the people are operating in that environment. So as a leader, that's what I really kind of encourage my team to do, because there's no point in kind of designing processes and changing systems and working on development programs unless you actually understand what's going to be meaningful for people, but at the same time relevant for the organisation.
Jimmy: I'm completely aligned, and one of the things that keeps coming up for me when we talk to organisations, and I know we've had this conversation, is that people are almost the great untapped resource when it comes to performance. We've put in crazily good systems, we've automated things, we've digitised things, we've added process affection, but actually, if you can engage the heart and the head of people, the hands and the feet do great work. And I I think you're exactly right. That common thread. Talk to us about the leadership journey that you've gone on in terms of the different organisations you've stepped through and what were the core moments, or the core lessons, that allowed you to keep moving forward and allowed you to be so successful?
Bec: Yeah. It's been an interesting leadership journey, because, you know, I still love to be a practitioner through and through. I care about making sure things, yeah, are appropriate and that they land. So I've actually, my own journey has been quite a challenging one, is how do I detach from the practitioner to actually one that steps back and actually then leads other practitioners. So I do find it a very interesting journey, especially as I started out. I never had the intent that I wanted to be a leader one day. All I wanted to do is just do good work and make an impact irrespective of what level I'm at and, you know, how big a team I'm working within. I just wanted to be one that makes a change, makes a difference. And so my leadership journey has really kind of stemmed from that. And I felt that the organisations and the decisions I've made in my journey have been around whether or not organisations would allow me to actually continue with my passion and what I love to do. Be close to the coalface, so to speak. If I am developing or leading a team, then that's great. But I still don't want to give up or, you know, hand up the reins of, you know, what it is that I love to do, and that's understanding what makes people tick and actually getting the best out of people. So, my leadership style, now that I've kind of matured through that journey, I'm not a micromanager, or I don't lead in that way, so to speak, but I am really interested and really curious around how my team are thinking. I think what I do is help them with the connective tissue around how do we actually support the business, how do we work together as a total talent team, but my role now is ensuring that that change management is effective. So, I have to understand what my team is doing, not necessarily change, you know, the outcomes of that, but what I can do is help influence how it lands in the business, and the ultimate behavioural shift that we can make through the designed delivery of our campaigns.
Jimmy: And I'm sure there's lots of leaders who go through this same transition, right? You go from being the practitioner, the expert, the high-performing individual, and most of our listeners will be well on that way to transitioning from doer to leader, our doer to manager to leader, or even leader to influencer, and it can present some challenges. It can be quite a painful transition as you let go of the identity that you previously had, and you step into this, almost like the chrysalis emerging into the butterfly, you step into this new world. What were some of the challenges that you found that have, I guess, been a struggle to let go of things that you previously wanted to hold on to to allow you to do the stuff you're doing now?
Bec: And it's that point that you made, that word that you said, the influencer. That was the challenge. And I guess, again, looking at the organisational types that I've been a part of, sometimes I have direct control to influence and actually have that influential conversation, but in some instances, when you're consulting, you can only influence so far. So, that piece of the puzzle has really been what I've really honed in on as an individual. So, I kind of started off, and I still am a practitioner, but I've kind of built my own capability to one that now I am a certified project manager, a change manager, because you need to understand the mechanics of how to make shifts in order to be able to influence. And so now, I can take those conversations and demonstrate what influencing looks like to help my teams along the way. So, I think that's been the biggest challenge is is actually leading through influence and actually bringing everybody along that journey with you. And I think a lot of practitioners like me will have a clear vision of Utopia, what good looks like, where do we want to take things. And sometimes I think that vision is really hard to translate. I recognise people don't live in my head. They can't see what I see. And so, you know, there's a different level of maturity and understanding in every conversation. So, how do you kind of normalise that so that everybody can be brought on that journey? And so I did that through looking at human-centred design. I love a good journey map, and I think that has really helped me over the last 10 or so years, painting a picture for where I want this, you know, strategy to go, or what that transformation needs to look like in a way that represents the individuals that will be going through that journey, and actually tell the story. And I think that has really helped me bring people onto the same page, and now I'm really encouraging my team to do the same. Because practitioners, love them, bless them, they use a lot of jargon, and if you're talking to the layman, they don't necessarily understand what it is you're saying, but painting a picture, it doesn't necessarily have to be a pretty one, it could be just connecting the dots on what is the experience going to be like, I think helps people understand where you're trying to head. And then I think everything that you talk about to influence the conversation can hang from that. And so that's really what I'm now trying to arm my team to do is that get certified in project management, go on a change management course, understand agile delivery, understand human-centred design. You're a practitioner, but you're only going to be able to practice if you make things happen. And so being able to influence by understanding what the business needs to do to make it happen, I think will build your credibility.
Jimmy: I could dig into this for days, but there's two pieces I really want to go back to. It kind of made me think about the metaphor that we often talk about when you go from leader to influencer is the sort of the conductor of the orchestra Yeah. versus the first violinist, and suddenly you notice your first violinist is playing out of tune, Yeah. you don't go and grab the violin. You sit down with the musical score and you show them the symphony that they're going to be playing, and you work with them to get there. And I think that transition is an important point. Yeah. The other point that I wanted to dig deeper into though with you is you mentioned that people are at different places. People have a different level of understanding of certain change journeys, or certain strategy, policies, whatever it might be, and that importance to meet them where they're at in order to step them to the next stepping stone in the journey map. Can you walk us through your thinking of how we do that and how you can meet people where they're at in a really effective way as a senior leader?
Bec: Yeah. And it's a really good question, and I guess even if I look back to all of the transitions I've made moving into new organisations, I always start in the same way, and that is by doing a diagnostic, actually understanding what current state is, because I may have a vision already going into the conversation of where I want the future state to be, but I've got to understand what's the starting point, because I need to understand how do I make that conversation relevant to your point. What level of sophistication, maturity are they at? And in order to do that, is actually having those conversations, meeting with everyone, every department, doing walk-arounds, chatting to people informally, having more formal kind of interviews and conversations, but really gathering that current state picture to get a really true understanding of what people are experiencing on the ground, what is it that they're faced with, what are the roadblocks that might actually be barriers for us to achieve the future state, and to do that, you really have to have that conversation. So, I do spend the first four or six weeks in any organisation having those conversations, and that's with my team that I'm inheriting, or I'm absorbing, or and/or the business. Anyone who touches the kind of the infrastructure that I'm looking to be a part of, you need to have that conversation.
Jimmy: It's so interesting, isn't it? We talk about all these strategic initiatives, and highfaluting concepts, and far-reaching leadership ideas, and actually, the real magic in great leadership, great influencing, great delivery comes down to that human connection, and that human conversation. And you talked about human-centred design. The clue is in the in the human part, right? It's putting the person first.
Bec: Exactly. And it's really tricky, because even in human-centred design, I mean, you stick on a a persona. Now, all of the organisations that I've been a part of, they're multicultural. The diversity is extraordinary, especially in the organisation that I'm at at the moment. So, the persona is based on the different cultural backgrounds, ethnicity backgrounds, operational backgrounds, so there is no one persona. When I speak with my team and I'm leading through the conversation, I may have the overarching vision of what the total talent strategy might look like. Their component parts will obviously hang off that, but then you've got to think about making everything fair and accessible to our people. So, unless you actually have the conversations with everyone in the organisation, and for us, that's 4,600 people, it's going to be a real hard job to kind of get something that's meaningful to all. So, there lies the complexity, is how do you democratise that understanding piece in a way that makes sense, but doesn't hold things back? So, we rely very heavily on our inclusion council and our employee resource groups who represent ethnicity backgrounds, cultural groups, even underprivileged, you know, demographic. So, we've got people who have connections to different communities, and it's actually leveraging their connections that will help us accelerate our strategy. So, when you're having the conversation, you've got to think about the person, is that person also going to be someone who can help you influence? Is that person going to be someone who can help you connect? Think about how you might want to utilise the relationship with that person as you kind of continue down the pathway of developing your strategy, and get those allies on board. And I think the important thing in those conversations is to make it worthwhile for the person you're speaking with. And I've been told, you know, I've got a lot of passion and energy, and I like to have fun in everything that I do. So, I do hope that people would say that they enjoy the conversation with me, because they'll come out feeling buzzy, or they'll be feeling excited that there could be things happening, and I do like to give the impression that we can make a change. But at first, you know, we need them to tell us and be really honest with us, is that what do you want? What will make that change? How would we create an organisation culture where you can thrive? Because I don't care about other people at this particular point, I care about you as an individual. And I think that's going to be the make or break of anything that we do, is actually making sure that we're taking every single person on that journey.
Jimmy: It's fascinating. And, I guess, where I'd like to take the conversation is to part of the journey that you're creating now, or that we're creating now, around supporting leaders to shift some of the conversations they're having from a more directive style to that more consultative, coaching, influencing approach. Can you walk us through why was that important to start doing at an organisational level with SkyCity across New Zealand and Australia, and what are some of the core pieces that are happening that are enabling that journey to start moving forward and start to pick up momentum?
Bec: Yeah, that's the killer question right there, because it's that behavioural change. And I guess, you know, SkyCity is a very historically, a very traditional business, and and one, as I mentioned, is very diverse. So, there are people in the organisation who have been in the organisation for a number of years. They've come through the leadership route, and obviously, are now quite very influential in terms of the success of our organisation. Now, with that longevity, you kind of limit then the external perspective. So, you only know what you know. And we're not saying we want all of our leaders to go out and leave the organisation and get some external experience, or go out to conferences every single day to kind of learn what other people are doing. I mean, that's good, but in moderation, but it needs to start with their own mindset and their own behaviour, because what they emulate will be observed by their teams and adopted by their teams. So, our behavioural change journey needs to go top-down and bottom-up, and sandwich in the middle. So, we're trying to kind of create, because our workforce is so diverse, we need those leaders to understand coaching philosophy. We need them to understand their own behaviour and how that translates, and what that impact could look like if they get it right and wrong, and what their role is to ensure that the organisation moves forward. We're living in a an environment and a world of ambiguity. There's all sorts of things happening, and last couple of days in New Zealand, you would have heard, the cyclones. So, disruption is everywhere. So, people need to be able to adapt. And our organisation, historically, has been very well-maintained. There's one way of doing things. Everybody's comfortable in their pockets. That's not going to take us into the future, irrespective of our industry. We've got to be able to adapt. And as I say, it needs to start with leaders understanding how their behaviour impacts others, and if they don't adapt well, then everything below them is not going to shift. That's why we decided it's really important to first understand what good looks like at our senior leadership level, and create a success profile for what that is, looking at traits and drivers and behaviours. Now we've got a picture for of that, we can use that as the foundation then to run more personalised development, you know, programs through our leadership tiers. But again, to change the outcome, we've also got to change the behaviour. So, the coaching piece up front is really that realisation of, okay, things do need to change, but what are my internal barriers that's going to hold me back? Yes, I'm still going to go on a development journey and a learning journey, and a coaching journey, but first I've got to understand my own starting point and be accepting of that. That's why we've decided to kind of push that piece forward. At the same time, we're also looking at the bottom-up approach, because we also recognise in F um, FY22, but in 2022, we hired 3,000 people in our organisation. Now, hospitality is very transitional, so unfortunately, we lost quite a few, and a lot of that was anticipated, but we we want to retain our people. So, if they're coming into our organisation, we want that first experience to be a positive one. So, we're introducing some buddy coaching for the receivers, you know, those managers who are receiving those new hires so that they can ensure that they play their role to make the new starter's entry into the organisation a positive one. And we're hoping then to scale that up, because obviously, 3,000 people each year, that's a lot of managers that are going to be absorbing, you know, new hires. So, there's a big acceleration strategy to look at that. But I think everybody's starting to talk about coaching, and I know just through my experience in the past, people think coaching, "I need to get a coach if I've got a problem I need to fix." They don't really see it like you would in a sporting environment where it's an enhancement. It's kind of thinking, "I want to be the best person I can be in this situation. I've got some positive things I need to deliver, and I want to make sure that I deliver it with impact." Coaching is a perfect way of being able to ensure that you achieve that. But I think the stigma attached to coaching has been it's only for executives, it's only if you've got a challenge. We're trying to change that narrative, and we're starting to see coaching philosophy weaved into everything that we're doing. People are asking us, "How do I get involved? I want to know more about myself, and unpick kind of how I can be better." And I think that is really going to help us shift the dial with our behavioural change.
Jimmy: Everything you're saying just kind of it's like you're crawling around inside my head. There was two things that came up that I think were are worth echoing. Number one is that shift in business climate from a compliance-focused, operational excellence-focused, almost business as usual, but let's make the machine better, to a real emphasis on dealing with ambiguity, volatility, resilience, adaptability. And the other piece that you mentioned that I really liked was if you want to change the outcome, you have to change the behaviours, and if you're going to change the behaviours, you have to change the beliefs. And so moving leaders to start believing something different, and I think some of their beliefs are probably being challenged anyway by some of the circumstances they're having to work in, but actually acknowledging and talking about some of those belief changes and the impacts of their behaviours on the beliefs of others, and therefore the outcomes they're creating is a great way to start that coaching journey. Can you tell us a little bit about it's not so much what have you done, but if I'm a leader in an organisation now and I want to start that journey towards creating a coaching culture in my organisation because I see the benefit of taking a little bit of the mental strain of leaders from having to have all the answers and having to do all the work, and maybe this untapped opportunity in their team of massive potential and talents that they haven't maybe seen because they're not having the right conversations, how do I start? What are the first two or three things I should be doing that are going to start the ball rolling, like a snowball, to create a coaching culture?
Bec: I guess, you know, there are a few things that depending on your maturity level of the starting point, but I think for us, if I take this real-recent example, is actually understanding where we need, what's the future of our organisation. What do we need to consider from a competitive standpoint, from a regulatory standpoint, where do we see our organisation in the future? And then it's actually understanding where is our organisation now. What I would suggest is that once, you know, you've you partner with the business to understand what that future-state kind of operational strategy is, and then you actually have the conversation with people and teams to understand what's the current state? What are some of the barriers that we're going to have to circumvent and navigate in order to achieve that? Now, a lot of people will come with the premise that it's our infrastructure, that's going to be a barrier, you know, we don't have people. So, they'll look at some of the kind of the more obvious things, but I think through those types of conversations, you're also getting an understanding of the individual's mindset, whether or not they're bought into that journey, whether or not they will be a resister to that journey, whether or not they've got some negative comments around where we're headed, because I think if they are in leadership roles in our business and they haven't got, as you say, the belief or the mindset to achieve, then you know that there's an opportunity to look at some coaching. So, I think it's actually that current-state picture is going to be really important. Look at those influential decision-makers, and understand what some of those barriers might be. And that's what we did at SkyCity. We need to make sure that our senior leadership team understand kind of what's happening at the lower levels, and we need to make sure that the other tiers of leadership and management in our organisation have the tools and resources to actually make that shift. Everybody's burnt out, everybody's under stress, there's a lot that people are juggling with. And so unless you have the conversation around what's going to be meaningful for you, what do you need from us to help you achieve what you need to achieve? And I think just even having that first conversation, that will give you an indication, okay, I think more of these conversations are going to be appropriate, and that's how we introduce the coaching need into our business model, because I could go back to our COO and senior leadership team to say, "Look, we've got a number of individuals who are really struggling with just today." So, when you're talking about tomorrow, that is just overwhelming. If we want them to get there, which we absolutely do, we need to address the current issues to give them the headspace and the mindset to help achieve what we need to in the next five or so years. So, have the conversation absolutely has to be the first starting point.
Jimmy: Yeah, I think the start the conversation piece is is an important and the meeting people where they're at right now with what are the challenges that are going on for you right now, and how can we as a leadership team support you to move from surviving to thriving, but also how do we then start to shift your perspective to what the future might be and what are the tools and and skills that are going to help that happening? But it what I'm hearing loud and clear is it's got to start from the senior leadership modelling some of those conversations and showing that those conversations lead to action as well as the bottom-up Yeah. approach to let's deploy some tools that people who Yeah. aren't necessarily as stretched in terms of intellectual capacity, but might be really operationally busy, they need some stuff to help right now, some tools and frameworks and skills, but those senior leaders have really got to start driving that culture down through the organisation through leadership programs, through coaching support, and, yeah, beautiful analogy of the sports coach. You get a coach to help you win a gold medal, not because you're falling behind in class, and leadership and capability coaching is exactly the same. It's to how do we accelerate performance and support the things that you need to be awesome versus we've got something to fix here. There's a problem this person needs remedial help. Yeah. And also looking at the organisational system, and, you know, we're really lucky at SkyCity that we have got a really engaged and bought-in senior leadership team who believe and support this agenda, but, you know, a lot of people might have the right mindset, and they might they might have the right attitude and behaviour that they want to achieve success in the future state, but sometimes the environment and the system of the organisation makes progression really hard, and, you know, hand on heart, I've seen that in a number of organisations that with all the will in the world, and all of the energy and the passion, all of the positivity that you can build, if they're then faced with it's too hard just to get from A to A+, then they're going to be demoralised and frustrated. And so, looking at the person piece is definitely a starting point, because then through those conversations, you understand some of those physical barriers to success, but you still have to start influencing the system change. If it is too hard to get things done, if the processes are too convoluted to kind of work across departments, then you're always going to be one step forward, two steps back. So, you do have to look at things in harmony. And that's why when I talk about my leadership journey, taking that change management practitioner route was a real eye-opener for me, because through the conversations around, you know, change impact, when you look at your future state, you know what your current state is, it's that transitional piece that is really important. What do we need to change, influence, and do differently, and what does organisational readiness look like to achieve the ultimate goal? And a lot of time, it is a lot people and a lot behavioural and mindset, but there's also process, infrastructure, and things like that that you cannot ignore. Because if you do, your people are still going to be demoralised, so you do have to take that overarching strategy. And especially when I talk to my team, we've got some really aggressive and ambitious strategies and visions coming out which, through our storytelling, the business is really bought into, really excited about, but each of my leadership team has to understand the change impact. What do we need to do? Who do we need to influence? And how do we build those allies early? Let's get them all involved in the the design process, the conversation, so they feel that they're part of the evolution. So when we do go to deploy anything, it's no surprise. People already part of it, and it feels like an organic, authentic kind of transition, and people are like, "Yes, that was me. I was part of that." And so that is a wonderful thing, and that's what gives me motivation every day. If I'm in the business and I'm hearing that business managers or our front desk officer has been involved in a design conversation about a new leadership program, I'm like, "Fantastic." And when I see my leaders walking around the business, and they're all like, "Hi, hi, hi," and I'm like, "You're doing the right thing. Your personal brand, you're in the business, you understand." And so, I really um champion that, and I think that that's what's going to make the biggest change is making sure that you focus on the people, but you don't lose sight of those physical rocks that you're going to have to manoeuvre in order to achieve ultimate success.
Jimmy: And part of that removal of the rocks is it's much easier if you chip away at it Correct. piece by piece versus trying to lift the whole rock in one go, and your change journey is more of an erosion journey than a Yeah. an avalanche. Yeah. It can make a big difference to the way. And so, yeah, I think you're exactly right. Holding leaders accountable to get out into the business and talk to people, and share the things that are going on, and understand some of the barriers that might be happening for their people around that, really, really key to the change journey. Amazing. Bec, what are you most excited about that you're working on right now at SkyCity?
Bec: Yeah, so we are undergoing a a big transformation. So when I joined SkyCity, which is nearly six no, a year and a half, 16 months ago, I came in with this total talent vision. So, in my portfolio, I look after talent acquisition, talent management, learning, organisation development, and D,E&I. Now, in a lot of businesses, they're separate work streams, but obviously, they work, you know, very closely together, but to be able to have that in one portfolio, we've got some great things happening. We are a total talent strategy. We've got a vision to make some real impact and change, and I think I'm super passionate and excited about what we've got on the horizon. We used our FY23 as the year to design, build, and pilot a number of new initiatives, but with that change impact and that influential strategy, we don't just look at the bits that we control, the design of the programs that we manage and making sure that they're really meaningful and exciting, because once you graduate from those programs, if the world doesn't change for those individuals who have spent time going through a program, then have we really serviced our purpose to the individual? So, what happens next? You've gained proficiency, you've gained some knowledge, let's give you the career experience now that you can apply that so so you can expand your role, and extend your role. Not necessarily get a promotion, but hopefully, you'll be able to develop and down a pathway of growth. And so, as I say, we're not necessarily in control of a lot of those processes, but we're using our influencing and our change management capability to help direct those conversations early so that we can tell the the story. So, you know, we've got a lot happening in that space which I think will make some huge changes to just how people show up to work and how they perform in job. So, no, we are super excited about what the future holds for us.
Jimmy: It it sounds genuinely thrilling, and I know that there's a lot of very exciting work happening in that space. I always kind of liken it to the computer game. You know, sort of like Zelda, where you want your employees to be going round this giant map, which is the work environment that they operate in, picking up supplies, picking up experiences, picking up skills and tools and things that they're going to need later. And and our job as talent teams and leaders across the organisation is to try and give your people as many of those experiences, and tools, and framework, and skills, and first aid kits when they fall and graze their knees, so when they get to that senior level, when they reach the place where you are, they're really well-prepared, really broad people who are filled with experiences and knowledge and real humanity for the people around them, because they've gone through it themselves.
Bec: Yeah, and that's a really important thing. And I guess that's also the catalyst to my leadership journey. It wasn't until I saw things at an enterprise level and understand how it all connects, and actually getting empathy for other parts of the business, that I really truly understood how my part of the puzzle makes an impact. So, I really encourage all of my team, have conversations, spend time in finance, understand how, you know, the supply chain works, understand what it's like on the shop floor, you know, walk in the shoes of others so you have empathy for how that all connects. And if we can bring that into our programs, so everybody comes out as an enterprise person, irrespective of level, and they understand how SkyCity works in its entirety, I think that is such a compelling proposition. And one that also encourages greater mobility, because people think, "I've always wondered what happens over there, and that's really similar to what I do, but I it's just extending in a different way." So, we've just um appointed our first internal careers mobility consultant who is really going to be supercharged to help identify where these extended career experiences can exist, and for those individuals that come through some development programs and are signalling that they want to understand where their career could go, this individual can actually do that in a proactive way. It might be shadowing, it might be a a stretch assignment, or a gig, or it might be redeployment. But we've got so many parts of our business that we can open up to our employees, we've just got to tell the story about it.
Jimmy: It sounds fascinating, and I I know there will be listeners who are like, "How do I get in on all this? How do I become part of this exciting journey?" So if people are interested in what SkyCity's doing and how to become part of it, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you, or with the careers team so that they can join?
Bec: I think, my LinkedIn. Send me a message on LinkedIn. If it's about, as I say, talent acquisition, talent management, learning, organisation development, D,E&I, I can wax lyrical about any of that any day of the week, so I'm really happy to help. But also our coaching journey, we're building a coaching marketplace now so we can make that more accessible and more relevant to the people with the different cultural backgrounds. So if anybody else is going on that journey too and wants to do it in partnership, I'm all about collaboration and connection. And ex- working with external partners would be fantastic, because we're all out to achieve the same thing, which is to do right for our business and also to do right for our people. And if we can do that with efficiencies and economies of scale, then I'm open to any opportunity.
Jimmy: Amazing. Bec, thanks so much for sharing not only some insights into what SkyCity's up to, but also the benefits of your experience, and the personal leadership journey that you've on. It's been a real gift to listen, and I'm sure that people will be reaching out to you on LinkedIn to understand a little bit more, and go a little bit deeper on some of those amazing topics that we've talked about. So, thank you so much for joining us. I really genuinely appreciate it.
Bec: Well, thank you, Jimmy. It's been a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
Jimmy: Amazing. If you enjoyed this podcast, please take a moment to drop us a review. And if you'd like to hear more, press that subscribe button. We'd love to have you as part of our community through the WOW organisation. If you think you would like to find out more, and you want to get in contact with Bec, as she mentioned, her LinkedIn will be in the show notes. And also, please do take a moment to share this podcast with other people you think might be interested in learning about leadership, talent, and how a coaching culture give you the huge edge in the performance of your business. If you've got any comments, questions, or want to offer any feedback, please reach out on Instagram or LinkedIn. I promise we answer every single message we receive. Bec, once again, thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate it, and speak soon.
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