How managers build trust for high performing teams

Jill: We at eBay, we start with individual purpose, because we're big believers that we all bring something unique to the table, and we want to honour that. And, so, we start our team development journeys with our own individual purpose work.
Jimmy: Welcome back to the Ways of Working podcast, your weekly dose of practical tips for senior leaders who are looking for a performance edge, without burning themselves or their teams out. Today, we are joined by Head of Team and Organisational Development at eBay, Jill DePompei Morales. Jill, so good to see you. Welcome to the podcast.
Jill: Thank you for having me, Jimmy. I'm happy to be here.
Jimmy: I want to get straight into it. Team and organisational development at eBay, obviously, you've got some experience in this space. Could you just break down for us, in your own words, and your own experience, what would you say are the core parameters, the core factors that make up a high-performance team?
Jill: Sure, I think, um, there are a couple key things that need to be in place. They're they're like the non-negotiables. And, I would say high trust is one, and a shared purpose would be another. And, you get at those in various ways, but those are those are the two key ingredients that have to be there for every high-performance team.
Jimmy: Amazing. So, high trust and high purpose, very similar to to what we talk about in our program. But, from the listeners who are thinking, well, what does that mean in terms of trust is quite an ethereal concept, and purpose can also be seen as quite a meta idea. Can we go into a little bit more detail on what does high trust look like in a team, and how do I, as a leader, go about building that with my team around me?
Jill: Yeah, I mean there are different ways to get at that. First, you have to assess for it, right? And see if your team members are actually behaving in a way where it's evident that they know that they have each other's backs, right? And so are there are there performance issues? Are there individuals that are, um, creating friction for whatever reasons, um, are are processes running smoothly? And these are all usually kind of lagging indicators of of something that's not quite right in the system. And so you have to assess for that trust and and be very clear what you're doing and why, and why it's important. Um, so, so high trust would look like uh teammates not wanting to to get all the credit for things, teammates really stepping up and stepping in for each other without even knowing what the ask is, right? It's uh knowing that you're going to get over that finish line as a team, not as individuals. So, there there's a lot of behaviour that you look for, um, around, is this really a trusting team? And I do have to say Jimmy, you have to really go back and define what a team is, first, because we have teams, and we have work groups, and those often get confused. So, teams, obviously back to the the shared interest, they have a common goal, they have, um, a reason that's shared and collective for wanting to go from point A to point B. So, you have to kind of start there, and then assess for that trust, and make sure it's there.
Jimmy: I think that's a really important clarification, as well. So, are we actually assessing this as a team, or are we assessing this as a group of people who are working on a piece of work together? And, if we are a team, that has a certain dynamic requirement, that the people in it need to be, A, willing to sign up to, and B, align with, because if they're not willing to sign up and align with the concept of we need to trust each other, we need to step in and help each other, we need to be have each other's backs, then trust is eroded. And, from your experience, trust is very hard to build, and quite easy to lose, in a lot of leadership context. So, if you're a leader who is trying to build trust, what are some of the practical steps that you have encouraged leaders at eBay to take on, or from your wider experience, encouraged leaders to work on?
Jill: Yeah, I love that question, and without sounding too cliché, 'cause I'm going to break this down a little bit, it's about vulnerability, in my opinion. It's about showing up as a leader who doesn't have all the answers, and being very clear about that. So, what that looks like in practice, is I always like to say, for and, you know, I've I've been in many leadership roles myself, and I I do try to practice what I say. I always like to say, you know, I don't always have the best uh ideas, but I know how to recognise a good one. Go with go with somebody else's idea. Test and learn around that. Don't feel the need to be the smartest person in the room, because frankly, um, you're probably not. And, and and allow for that collective wisdom to really kind of take you to the next place. I always say individuals create the sparks, but teams create the flame. And, so, if you allow others to, um, surface their ideas, and not only surface them, but actually action them, that builds trust. That builds, um, a a sense of value. And, I see, um, team members really open up when they know that you're taking what they're saying seriously, and and the team takes what you're saying seriously. So, it becomes this, um, it becomes this really nice mindshare around things that that you can try or do differently. And, um, you don't even really know who the leader is at that point. If I were to walk into that room, and it's happening in that natural organic way, I shouldn't be able to point out who the leader is, because they're all equally contributing.
Jimmy: I really resonate with that, not feeling like you need to be the smartest person in the room. And, there's a great tendency for a leader to think, well, I'm the leader, I have to have the answers, I have to know everything, I have to be better than everybody. And, it's quite a transcendent moment, isn't it, for a leader where they suddenly go, well, my job is actually to make the decisions, not to necessarily have all the ideas. And, I've got this pool of incredibly talented people that I recruited, and I selected, and I brought in, or maybe I've inherited. But, I've got this incredibly talented group of people around me, and I should tap into their collective wisdom. As you say, the individual brings the sparks, but the team lights the fire, or or think that was the the paraphrase of your metaphor there.
Jill: Create the flame, yeah. Yeah.
Jimmy: From what you've seen, and obviously from your own experience as a leader, but also now creating high performing teams programs for leaders and teams across eBay, what are some of the common mistakes that come up time and time again that we can make people aware of and and we can share some of the solutions to avoid those mistakes?
Jill: Well, there's several. So, I I have a couple in mind that I'd like to share. One, and and you touched on this Jimmy, is try to avoid the tendency to want to pick what you deem as the highest performers as individuals to come into a team. And, the reason I say that is because it really isn't about that anymore once you get into the system of a team. It's about how does that team come together, right? How do they build that high trust and psychological safety? Um, how do they become more adaptable and and resilient together? So, it's not about individual performance any longer. And, the other the other piece I would say, too, is don't expect miracles overnight. It takes a a while. It takes quite a while to build a high performance team. Um, we call them great teams at eBay. And, I love this quote from Shakespeare, because I think it's so apropos. It's, "To climb steep hills requires slow pace at first." So, our metaphor is a mountain. And, we have base camp, and then you have, you know, the camps on up to the summit. And, so, just know that it takes time, and you're going to have these little microwins along the way. And, celebrate those, because that's again what feeds the system and and gets you ready for that next step. So, don't think it's going to happen overnight, don't expect it. I work with all kinds of leaders who want, you know, quick results, because they get rewarded for that. And, so, it's a shift in that mind-set. And, let me tell you, the results that you'll achieve if you take the time necessary, are infinite. I mean you'll be able to do whatever you need to do, and then some.
Jimmy: Two things came up for me while you were talking there. First one was the Atomic Habits excerpt where, you know, the 1% improvement every day leads to a 37.8x improvement by the end of the year, because we're working on the compound interest of small actions. And, I think that kind of reinforces your idea there of it's it's not the grand gesture of trust-building, or, we're going to do team stuff, it's the small gestures, consistently applied over the course of the year, that start to really build momentum. The other one, I don't know if you've read this book, it's called The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle. It's probably one of my favourite books at the moment. Daniel, if you're listening, please, I would love a signed copy. It's literally my Bible. But, he talks about the idea of connection signals, when you're trying to build trust as a team, and one of the significant differentiators of a high-performance team, is that they're consistently sending and receiving these little connection signals, which keep the amygdala at bay, uh and allow the people to operate, and feel safe in the environment, that they can trust those around them. And, when we lose those little connection signals, those small gestures, that's when things start to erode again. So, again, trust is not one big gesture. We don't do an away day and build trust. We do trust in small steps over the course of the year.
Jill: Right, and they're and once they become consistent, then you can rely on them, and that's what people are looking for, right, is that consistency.
Jimmy: Absolutely.
Jill: You You said something else that I wanted to to touch on about building trust, it's creating that environment where you can have a conversation you've never had before. And, so, I've watched our teams do that, and when that happens, Jimmy, that's what gets the ball rolling, right? That's when they know, "Oh, this is different." And, it becomes a felt sensation. It's really even hard to articulate it in words, because you have to feel it. And, just like trust, right, it's not like, um, I think Simon Sinek says this, it's not like it just you flip a switch, right? It's just like there there's a moment over those incremental things that happen where you're like, "I trust that person." Like it just it it kind of washes over you. Same happens with developing high-performance teams, right, as they start to have these conversations that they've never had before, it opens up the possibilities of that happening, um, in a in a more organic way. And then, they get to that next step, and it goes on and on, and becomes much more predictable. And, that hill becomes easier to climb.
Jimmy: And it's I guess it's stepping outside the comfort zone as well, right? So, Yes. you can't do a long jump out of your comfort zone, and expect to be stable, but if you take like a toe out, and then a foot out, and then a step out, that building of, yeah, those conversations that you've never had before. And, each time, that next conversation is the conversation you haven't had before, but you've got to start with the first small conversation. And That's right. from your experience And you're like, "I survived that." Yeah, it was it was okay, we got away with it. Yeah, from from your experience, and I know I have, it's actually, a lot of that time is starting with the vulnerability conversation. Hey, Yes. Yeah. you know, we need to build a team, I'm looking for ideas. How do we do that? I'm going to share a little bit about my background and what I know, but I'd also like to hear about your background and what you know. And, it's just having that human level conversation, that human-level connection. Yeah. Beautifully articulated. We've been playing a little bit with a metaphor around trust. It's not a light switch, it's a seesaw, because you you can't flick trust on, but you can sort of ease into it, and also you can ease out of it. And, you can and you the words you used were felt. Um, you feel the seesaw moving, right? You feel the are you are you on the up, or are you on the down? Yeah. And, and and I think there's a nice metaphor in that. Let's hop across to the other element that you mentioned of building a high-performing team, which was a clear purpose. Can you tell us some more about that, and then we'll dig a little bit deeper?
Jill: I'd love to, and it's clear, and it's shared. And, that's the real critical piece. We at eBay, we start with individual purpose, because we're big believers that we all bring something unique to the table, and we want to honour that. And, and so, we we start our team development journeys with our own individual purpose work. Um, and so, sometimes, that's a new conversation, right, even for the individual, like they've never really thought about it like that. So, it's fascinating to watch the bonding that happens just with that one exercise. And so, once they, you know, they have prompting questions, they come in, and they talk about what really does drive them, like what really, you know, brings them to what they do, um, and it it's all over the map. It's not, obviously, just about their job at eBay, or or somewhere else. It It's what really drives them in life. And so, they're able to share that as a team, and then, the beauty of that, um, bridge, is it bridges them, then, into a higher-calling purpose Mhm. as a team. So, when you ask the question initially about purpose, this is in my experience anyway, I often get the, "Oh, the- these are the things I'm tasked with." These are the These are the things like It's like their little punch list. It's like, "Hmm, okay." And, and there's no like right or wrong answer, but it's just fascinating, right? And then, when you do this individual purpose work, and you really get them into that conversation they've never had, they they start to see, "Oh no, we're here for a higher calling. Mhm. And and now, we can kind of see how the individuals, you know, that are at this table, how they bring their loves and passions into what we're doing as a team." And so, that's a really critical piece of the work that grounds them in the rest of the team development work that we have them do.
Jimmy: So aligned on everything that that we're we're writing and talking about right now, in terms of, yeah, you've got to start with your personal purpose, why were you put on this planet, and what are you here to contribute, and how are you going to make a difference? Right. Take that into your role, take that into your team, take that to your organisation. If If a leader wants to to start that conversation with an individual, maybe one of their team members who might not be so clear on their purpose, and isn't quite sure of what their contribution is to the team, what would be some good questions they could ask?
Jill: Well, one question that we love asking is, when was the last time you were doing something you enjoyed, and you completely lost track of time? And, they they have to think about it sometimes, right, because it's like, "Oh gosh, I," because we're always such a go, go, go, um, at least in this country, we're a go, go, go culture, and depending on on where their roots are, but it's a challenge just to to get them to think about it that way, right? So, or, what have you done in life that really speaks to your heart? And, if you get them into kind of the emotional side of of it, then that's where you get the real nuggets, right, because it it's it's not so heady, it's not so intellectual anymore. And, this is where it all begins. Like because again, you remember how things make you feel. So, um, it took me a while to actually get to my individual purpose, and also allowing that to evolve, is is another piece of advice that we often give. I didn't really know what my individual purpose was until I decided to leave a very successful career, and repackaged myself to be, um, a certified coach, and then to get more into the the coaching development space. And, my my purpose is to take individuals, teams, coaches, to places they've never been. And, I did wasn't even able to articulate that for for the longest time. So, you have to kind of just peel the layers, and and really get real with yourself about what speaks to your heart.
Jimmy: I'm I'm so fascinated. There's so, I mean, there's so many gems that we could dive into there, but I I think there's that key statement you made was where you're asking people to drop out of their heads, and into their hearts. And, for a lot of organisations, that can be really challenging, because they're a potentially a left-brained, performance-focused, KPI-driven organisation. How do you create time and space for somebody to be able to drop out of that intellectualising the questions, and actually to start to have a more emotive response? How does a leader do that?
Jill: Yeah, so, I think we we set up the journey such that we give our best practices, and then every leader needs to really think about what's best for their team, right? So, I mentioned, you know, depending on where you're from, and what your roots are, and your heritage, in in the United States, we're tend to be very much a go, go, go culture, other cultures are very different, right? Some are more reflective, some don't want to be in a big group talking about these things right away. So, I think it's really, really important to understand the uniqueness of your team, and what they need to be able to do those things. Um, because we're all human at the base level, but we all get there in different ways. So, um, some some leaders actually give pre-work, and they let their teams, as individuals, reflect on these questions, as like prompting questions, reflect on them before they come back into the bigger group to speak about them. Some leaders have breakout rooms, especially if you're in a hybrid situation, and they break them out, and they have like smaller group discussions, right, about these things. So, there's different ways to go about it, and we, um, we give the guidelines on pre-work, but then we say, "But, you know your team best," and and we encourage them to get to know them if they don't. I was going to say, that there's a prerequisite there, isn't there, to build some trust, and be a little bit vulnerable, to know to know your team. Exactly, yeah. Please, please, that's really critical, because, you know, you need willing participants to to be able to to move through these, uh, steps. And, if you're if you don't know your team, and what works best for them, I could say say the same for recognition, right? There We can make a list of these things that you're not going to get very far if you don't kind of give that some time and space, as well.
Jimmy: I I love the fact that a lot of our episodes link up, and there was a beautiful phrase mentioned by Kelly Jenson, who's from one of our episodes, that you can look back in the show notes and and find the list of the episodes, um, and she said, "You have to know your people like you know your business." And, what tends to happen when you're at that senior leadership level is, you know, you know your P&L, you know your fast-moving items, you know your inventory, you know your marketing strategy, but often you don't know your people. And, it's not a We did a a mastermind on this last month, know the person, not the position. Mhm. Because a lot of people know, oh, you're Jimmy and you're the marketing guy, or you're Jill and you're the HR lady, but actually do I know who Jill is? Do I know what Jill stands for? Do I know what's important to Jill? It's so true. Or, do I just see Jill as the HR person? And, so, getting to know your team like you know your business, know what drives them, know the motivators, know the inspiration factors, know the values and goals, then have a conversation around, so, what's the purpose of us all doing this? Why are we all here? What are we trying to achieve that's bigger than us? Yeah, beautiful, beautiful articulation. Thank you so much.
Jill: Yeah.
Jimmy: I'm I'm interested in a little bit of your background. You mentioned that you left a very successful career, and rebranded, repositioned yourself. How did you get to where you are now? What was the journey?
Jill: Well, I guess the the the term these days is squiggly career, right? So, I always I always love that word, squiggly. I think mine is squiggly, in a sense. I started in human resources, oof, 25 years ago, or so, uh doing the typical, you know, kind of assistant-level work, and working my way up to business partner, and I've been in several industries, financial services, oil and gas, um start-ups, you know, tech, and I got to a point in my career where I I was completely mapped out. Like I I had I knew where I was going, I was on that track to go all the way up to the highest level of HR, and something wasn't right, Jimmy. Something It I I had I had an amazing career. I was doing well, I had a great reputation, great brand, um the leaders were wonderful. I enjoyed the organisation even, but something wasn't right in my heart, and it actually was circumstances that got me to, um, take a a deep, inner look at at what I was going to do next. And, I had moved around the country quite a bit with my job, um which honestly, um, made my son, as he would say, very adaptable. So, Agile. which Which is good. Agile, exactly. My 19-year-old, who's in university now, um which I'm I'm grateful for, and my family has always been willing to to go wherever my job has taken us, but I knew once I came back to California, which is where I'm from, that I needed to get real with myself. And so, I, um, my job was being repackaged and relocated to Houston, and my family was like, "Uh, we don't want to move again. Like we're we're just done with that." And so, there were some circumstances that all kind of converged, and it caused me to really think about and get in touch with my heart around what really drove me, like why was I really doing this work? What is my purpose? Yes, what is my purpose? And, that's when I got clear that I love coaching. I love I love the human side. I know it's funny, it's human resources, but there's many aspects to human resources that don't feel so human to me. Mhm. So, and I had to do all of them, right, as a generalist. And, I really loved the the real human side, that transformational piece of the work. And so, um, I was I was able to step out at that point, and that's when I did some consulting, and got certified as a coach, and I actually went into focusing my coaching practice on athletes, on college athletes. And, that was another interesting, um, divergence for me, because, um, I I the first question I get asked is, uh, "Well, did you play college sports?" And, back to my purpose, right? Now, I I really believe you have to work within your purpose to be very confident and strong in these types of situations, um, I said, I say, "No, I I didn't. I worked, uh or I, um, I was in, um, high school athletics, but not college." Um, but I was still very, very confident that this was the demographic that I wanted. And, so, I think when you work within your purpose, those kinds of questions, those kinds of opinions, those kinds of, you know, 'cause everybody has an opinion, they don't faze you like they used to, um, in in earlier days, or earlier parts of your career. So, that was just another thing that I wanted to to share, is, um, they're very they're very few people that their input and advice really makes me kind of think again. Others, I just kind of hear it and take it, but I'm confident about what I'm doing and why, and it's because I found my purpose.
Jimmy: I love that. The idea of, we call it working on purpose, and that has connotations of, obviously, the heart-led passion, the determination, the drive, but also it's very deliberate. You're very focused and considered about what you're doing when you're on purpose. And, Yeah. I also wanted to go into the the sports side of your psyche, because not only are you running organisational development team so team and organisational development at eBay, but you have a a side practice that is continuing, right? It the 3Deep Coaching. Yes. Can you tell us a little bit about how are you I'm fascinated by the concept, but that idea of high-performance sports, high-performance athletes, high-performance coaches, and high-performance teams in commercial organisations, there's a lot of bridging points, right? Oh, yes. Can How are you leveraging one into the other? How are you building your coaching practice whilst creating these amazing programs at eBay, and where are the things that you can pull one to the other, and use in those two different contexts?
Jill: And they are similar, right? So, um, I do a lot of team sports, so team development is my absolute favourite. I I love the the systems approach to development. Um, but I also love the individual aspect that kind of makes up that team. So, there are a lot of crossovers, and I I test and learn. I'll try something at eBay, and then I'll test it in my coaching practice, and vice versa. But, what I love about athletes in particular, which is a little different than the the corporate sector, is they're 99.9% of them are hardwired for intense work. Like they they will do anything it takes to be their best. And, they they kind of already get it, right? Like that piece of it, I don't have to pull out of them like I do sometimes on the corporate side, right? Like you have to kind of get them there on the corporate side, 'cause some people are very successful without having to go deep, or do, you know, that intense work on the corporate side. Athletes, they're going to they're going to fizzle out, right? They're not They're not going to make it if they can't go there. Um, so I love that, and that's one of the reasons I love that demographic. They're hardwired for intense deep work, and that's what I do. And, they have that teaming aspect where they really are able to test and practice some of the tools that you work on with them in very real-time. So, you get immediate feedback on it, whereas on the corporate side, it it takes longer to push some of that through. So, so we we try I try to see, okay, what works, um, in real-time over here in the athletic side, and then can I apply some of that over here. So, there's, for example, there's breathing techniques, right, that I use with my athletes, um, to centre them. And, they have to recover very quickly, so they I I see them actually doing it in real-time. Like they'll do what we've practiced, or, you know, in real-time. And then, and then we'll we'll debrief about that. Okay, how did that work for you? Were you able to recover? Were you looking forward versus back? You know, those kinds of things. And so, then I I test some of that in the in the corporate world, because they they apply across. It's just there's there's a different willingness, right, and a different appreciation and tolerance for some things versus others, depending on which group I'm working with.
Jimmy: So fascinating. And, I want to be slightly controversial.
Jill: Oh, please, I love that.
Jimmy: When when business people look at high performance athletes, and they want to emulate them, quite frequently they only see what I would call race day, or, you know, the competition day. And, they think that that is the high performance that they need to emulate. It's the, you know, turning up, running the race, winning the gold medal. But, there's a lot more that goes into a high-performance athlete than race day, isn't there? There's a lot of other things that have to happen to create that high performance. And, to use a very basic example, there's rest and recovery days Oh, absolutely. Yeah. alongside race days. There are breathing techniques. There's, and you mentioned the hard work is not just the training hard work, there's the spiritual and the the personal work that has to go into making them a high-performance athlete. Yeah.
Jill: It's the whole person, right?
Jimmy: Where have you taken an athlete in in that mindset of, I've just got to be like it doesn't, I've got to train harder, fight longer, run faster, do more, and shown them a different way, that leaders who are listening could apply in their own practice, in their own organisations?
Jill: It's the incremental steps approach, right? So, um, we find a couple of key areas that they want to focus, or that emerged from some of our earlier conversations, conversations they've never had before, typically. And, it's uh Mhm. Yeah, it's that incremental, um, progress, and then getting them to actually track it. So, for for an example, I had a basketball player who was so sleep-deprived, and this sounds trivial, but that has a huge impact on their performance, so sleep-deprived. And so, um, we we talked about the the simple things that people don't always even think about, or think that they can help. And, that was, um, okay, where do you leave your phone at night? And, he's like, "Well, it's right next to my bed." Mm, let's try something different, right? So, it's like this new choice. It's called a new choice. Okay, so, um, he decided to leave it on his nigh- um his his bureau that was across the room, or something like that. Just that incremental change gave him, you know, an extra hour of sleep, or something like that, and he was tracking that progress. So, that's another thing I want to just be very, very clear about with the listeners here, is that simple is sometimes better, and often it is. We underestimate the impact that simplicity has. We tend to overcomplicate, and we tend to think, "Oh, it has to be this big, you know, hairy, audacious goal," and it it it really, life really isn't like that. So, if you can take these little simple incremental steps, pick one or two areas, and make progress, and track it, because there's an accountability piece to that, um, then you're you're going to make progress, and you're going to actually feel and see the difference. So, that's just one example I have.
Jimmy: And simple should not be confused with easy, right?
Jill: No. No. No. Um, I I think most things that are worth anything are actually not easy. So, um, and that we our athlete my athletes talk about that.
Jimmy: And I think when you're talking about building high-performance teams, building high-performance leadership, we talk of obviously this of the umbrella term of building high-performance cultures, it is made up of relatively simple activities, Yeah. but it takes that accountability, it takes that tracking, it takes that measurement, and it takes that revisiting of, is this actually working or not, will I continue it or not, and adapting, as you go, That's right. that is not easy. It's It's determined performance-focused work, but it it is simple to implement. It's simple to start.
Jill: It It is, and the willingness, this is part of our great team operating system, the willingness and tolerance for mistakes. We have to know that we're human, and we're going to make mistakes, and our teams are going to make mistakes. Um, how how do you, um, bring that in, and actually celebrate the learnings from that, right? Mhm. So that you can progress. We tend to have issues with highlighting mistakes, because there's that element of perfection, which doesn't exist, by the way. I'm sure most people know that intellectually, but they still strive for it. You Just focus your focus your energy elsewhere.
Jimmy: Let's go deeper there on, I'm a high-performance leader, you know, I've traditionally got great business results, but I'm struggling a little bit, and I want to encourage my team to make mistakes, but we can't afford to make mistakes, because that could be career-limiting, right? That could get me fired, that could get that person fired, that could ruin our business results for the year. That's the reality that a lot of people feel like they're living in. Sure. How do I deal with that? How do I encourage my team to make mistakes when the cost of making the mistake could be significant?
Jill: So, I work with a a very high-stakes team at eBay right now. Certainly in my other careers, I've had very like life-and-death kinds of teams, right, literally. It's it's about manageable risks, and knowing how to assess for that, like what what could be a low-level risk thing that we're just we're just going to try, and that's also how you encourage innovation, right? Because if you're if you're so, I'm going to just say mistake-averse versus risk, Locked down, yeah. Yeah, you're so lock like locked down and paralysed by it, you're never going to have innovation. So, um, I'd say, you know, the team I'm working with now, they actually grade their risk tolerance in certain areas, and they give them, you know, numbers. They kind of seriatim rank the risk, and then they'll they'll take the lowest risk, and they'll they'll, um, they'll innovate with that. They'll they'll try new things. And, so so a little bit of it is kind of reframing the term mistake, too. Like, what really is a mistake? Is that you tried something, and it didn't really work the way you had hoped, or is it a complete flub-up that has just cost the company millions of dollars, or whatever? I don't know, some somewhere in between. But, but really even getting clear on what what is a mistake. What let's define that. Let's define that, and maybe even reframe it, because sometimes it's just in the words. Words are powerful.
Jimmy: The interpretation and the fear that can be created as well, the scarcity mind-set that gets created around, well, if I mess up, I'm going to be fired versus if I mess up, I'll be better educated for next time round. Yeah, exactly. There's There's a whole different mind-set. I love that idea as well of looking at certain elements of the team and deciding, what is our risk appetite for that element, for a financial decision versus maybe an office management decision, or a hiring decision. There's a maybe a different risk appetite in each of those areas. So, yeah, very very good insight, because there often is that resistance to, we call it exploring, but trying new things, innovating and creation, because the risk of mistake is too high.
Jill: That's right. Yeah.
Jimmy: Absolutely incredible. If people want to get hold of you, if people want to reach out and learn what you're doing at eBay, within the confines of IP licensing and availability, obviously, um or alternatively the amazing work that you're doing with coaches and athletes in your own practice, what's the best way for them to reach you?
Jill: An email directly to me at [email protected] would be great. Um, I also have a website. I think you're going to link that Jimmy, or it comes out in your Yeah, we'll pop everything in the show notes. Yeah, that would be great. Just send me a a direct. You can contact me via the website or directly via email.
Jimmy: Amazing. And, my final question for you before we close out, favourite place, favourite country, favourite thing, favourite place to go and visit, what would you say?
Jill: You know, this is funny, because you and I have had this conversation before, and I remember us having a difference of opinion. So, my favourite currently, um, I'm waiting for something to top it, is Costa Rica. I absolutely adored Costa Rica, uh particularly the rainforest. I just, I don't know, it was magical to me.
Jimmy: Fantastic. Jill, thank you so much for joining us on this episode, and sharing some really deep insights into creating and building trust, to the idea of cultivating a sense of purpose for yourself and for your team, and the individuals, moving from head to heart, and then finally a little bit about your own coaching, bridging high performance, and making this whole concept of high-performing teams seem simple, but not easy. Thank you so much for joining us.
Jill: Thank you for having me, Jimmy. It was my pleasure.
Jimmy: Awesome. That's a wrap for this episode of the Ways of Working podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, make sure to hit the subscribe or follow button on your podcast platform, so you don't miss our upcoming episodes. And, if you have a moment, please leave us a review with your thoughts on Apple Podcasts or your favourite podcast app. Your feedback helps us improve, and grow our community of senior leaders seeking a performance edge. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next episode.