How managers build real resilience beyond simple endurance

And, you know, I often say to my clients, sort of leaders, spend more time just listening to people, and you'll find, actually, you'll get a lot more done because they'll just feel valued, listened to. They'll share stuff, and, actually, probably come up with their own ideas themselves.
Hello, and welcome back to this week's episode of The Ways of Working podcast, your weekly dose of practical tips for leaders who are trying to gain that high-performance edge without burning themselves or their teams out. Now, before you put down your phone or click away from this window, make sure you hit follow or subscribe on your preferred platform of choice to make sure you don't miss any future episodes of The Ways of Working podcast with our incredible experts and guests.
Hello, and welcome back to this week's episode of The Ways of Working podcast. This week, I'm joined by Julian Roberts. Julian is the Chief Resilience Officer for Julian Roberts Consulting. Julian, welcome to the show.
Julian: Good to see you, Jimmy. And uh thank you for inviting me on. Looking forward to this conversation.
Jimmy: Same, same. And, you know, Julian, you've got a fantastic background in all sorts of organisations. I see you worked in senior strategic commercial positions for multi-national corporations such as Heinz, Yoplait, Johnson & Johnson, and a family-owned business. Since 2017 though, you changed tack slightly. You've been working as uh a coach consultant in your own practice with individuals and teams from various industries, including food, FMCG, retail, media, engineering, financial services, and the like. Can you tell us a little bit, how did this journey unfold? Talk us through your career highlights that have led you to end up as a Chief Resilience Officer.
Julian: Heh-heh-heh-heh! Yeah, so, and I didn't realise that even existed. Possibly doesn't even exist. Who knows? Um, well, I I started as a I went to university. I did a degree in pathology to be a budding forensic scientist. And and there I am today, uh, you know, talking about resilience. But, I that's what I did aim to do, and I I quickly realised through my degree that looking at test tubes, lab stuff wasn't for me. I love people, and so, I then worked on getting a career in the whole sales world, and I went to medical sales. I had a medical-type degree, and thought sales is what I do. Loved it. Enjoyed it. And then, I just got headhunted into the food the world of food because it seemed bigger, a bit more sexier, a lot more dynamic. Uh, pharmaceuticals, as more enjoyable, it's quite slow paced, in terms of uh sort of from a commercial point of view, and I started to really get an appetite for commercial and developing uh sort of commercial propositions in businesses and strategy. And so, the world of food was great uh and loved it, enjoyed it, um worked on various organisations, you've named. Um, and as much as I love the strategy piece, love hitting the sales targets and the EBIT targets, one thing I really did, and this was this was a reflection, and this happened towards the end of my career when I was in a a toxic environments, and I started to really question not only myself, also question why am I doing here? What What What's next? And so, I reflected on my career, and I realised, actually, it was the people side is what I really enjoyed. Uh, I remember when I was at Yoplait, I developed a a competency model, which I didn't realise I was developing a competency model, but I did cause I loved develop people. I love to understand how people worked to try and hone their skills. And I remember somebody from HR, sort of global HR lady came to me, "So, you should work in HR." And I just took it as a, "Okay. Whatever." I didn't really understand what she was trying to say. Uh, but it was, I loved spotting people's talent. I loved uh getting excited about uh developing them, and I had this ability to unlock their talent, and I had like a coaching style, and I realised, actually, this is what like coaching. And therefore, I I stepped on this journey, left the world of corporate, and started to build a career, and uh transition, a career transition, and get trained up as a coach, and through that is where we are today. In the last six years, done various things. I've done a masters in psychology, various team coaching, individual coaching, NLP. I probably done more development in the last five years than I have in the previous 20 years, and um it's been a great journey, and as well as trying to build a business, which is equally, as you know, exciting and challenging all the same time.
Jimmy: And requires a degree of resilience, right? And, you know, it amazes me how many people end up in the world of people development and working alongside senior leaders as coach consultant, whether internal or external, because they've worked in what you mentioned, a toxic environment, or a really challenging, for me, an environment that maybe makes burn out happen. What do you think it is about the idea of resilience that is the thing that attracted you to build your practice around? What What is resilience, exactly?
Julian: Well, it stems from the fact that I I I really got into the world of endurance sports uh probably about seven or eight years ago. Uh sounds very grand endurance sports. Um, and I remember seeing a uh an Ironman um sort of triathlon on TV and I thought, "I want to do one of those one day." And I wasn't a great long-distance runner. Um, I I had a motorbike accident when I was 16, smashed up my leg, smashed up my kneecap, all the I had all the things against me. Um, and I knew it would be quite challenging. Wasn't a great swimmer and all sorts of got asthma. So, I had all these things, but I I was determined to do it. And, I I did it, and I did various along the way lots of injuries and lots of impact on me. But, it it taught me a lot about uh the the power of not only of purpose, but of the power of just getting back up again. And, but the key thing, and this is where resilience, for me, is important. It's not just about getting up and gung ho, and grit, determination. There's an element of that. It's the learning piece. And and and what I found through my my trials of endurance sports is, with all the injuries, I learned every time I got an injury, and, or a setback, or I didn't complete a race, whatever reason, I would then think and reflect, and go, "Okay. What happened there? What do I need to do next?" You know, I remember getting multiple injuries on my calves, and so I then, "Okay. I want to get somebody who will give me massage every two weeks to ensure that I I'm properly supple. I I I do strength and conditioning to sort of protect my sort of core muscles." And so, it's the learning piece, and that's what really attracted me. And and I think, you know, for me, resilience is something you can you can be taught. Uh, I think people think it's something in you, but it can be really taught, and I was fascinated by the the topic, fascinated by how people do things, you know, having and like I say, I I have lots of people on my own podcast who have do amazing things and amazing feats, and I just love the insight and and what that does. And so, that's my, I suppose, my first for resilience started, and and I then started to incorporate that. And, and like all things, you start to attract that sort of people. You know, I started I I worked with a uh a team of athletes who uh were rowing around Great Britain, and for them, for about 12 months. And, part of that was to build mental resilience, mental toughness, as well as communication, team development, all that sort of stuff. Um, and so, I I started to to develop that as well. So, that's that's, for me, where it started.
Jimmy: So interesting. And to build on what you said, one of the ways of describing resilience I've heard, which really resonated with me, was resilience is not being super strong, or super robust, or able to undergo enormous strain. It's almost the ability to experience that strain and find a way back, whether it's, as you say, through learning, or physiotherapy, or through understanding and growth. And it's almost that boxer that gets knocked down, and gets back up again, and keeps fighting because they're resilient. Does that resonate for you?
Julian: It does. And I I think it it's it's the The The key thing is is this learning loop aspect, which I think is really important. And, I think it's taking time out to reflect on that. What happened? Why did something happen? Why did you miss, you know, a goal? Why did you get knocked down? Why did you get Whatever it may be, the context you're in, uh, and it's it's it's re-playing that and understanding it. And, I think, for me, that's what resilience is about, and it's putting things in place. And, I think there's there's ways and there's practices that you can do to make you more resilient, and more um individually, but also as a team. And so, uh and I I do a lot of work with my clients, and I don't just taught resilience all the way through it, but there's this thread uh of resilience. And so, you know, I think, you know, for me, having that resilience, whether it's an individual or a team, equals high performance. Uh and so, you you can't have high performance unless you're a resilient team. Because resilient teams are, you know, innovative, purpose-focus, you know, uh have clear processes in place, and team learning, flexibility, trust. There's a whole host of stuff that comes part with that.
Jimmy: So fascinating. And, you know, you mentioned there that resilience is something that can be taught or something that can be learned. Can you walk us through, what would be some of the big parameters, or big factors, that you would share, or maybe have shared with an organisation around building resilience at that senior level for our listeners?
Julian: Yeah. I've got a great example. I worked with uh a CEO, or a number of CEOs, a few years ago. And, obviously, you know, just over three years ago, we were all facing, you know, the worst thing since we've ever faced as a generation, you know, with with the pandemic. And having conversations with people who were in a certain state of survival, and the world is going to end type of mindset. We all went through that sort of process. And, I remember talking to um a CEO, and he, I said to him, "In your business, does your purpose, or your mission, of your business change in the context of what's just happened with the pandemic?" And he said to me, "No. Not really. It's broadly the same." And, in some sense, it should be, that because purposes and missions should be far bigger than you and far out there anyway. I said, "Okay." I said, "Well, go back to your team, and revisit that purpose. Because where you get purpose, there's lots of energy there. If it's been done properly, there's lots of um insights, and think about it. Re- Re- get your gaze, or you lift your gaze back on your purpose, because it takes you out of your situation, takes you out of the reality, doesn't mean we shouldn't be in reality, but it takes you out of where you're at right now, and inspires you, and use it as a as a platform as an opportunity to say, "Okay. This is where we're at. This is our purpose. We've got this big thing in the way. How are we going to navigate it?" And he used that, I I I didn't take him through the process, but he used it as an opportunity then to come up with ideas, ways of working. And he came back, and everybody was more energised. Everybody was more up for it, because they've almost got back to their north star. They'd almost forgotten about it. The north star was far bigger than the pandemic, far bigger than them, and it created ideas to step back and think, "Okay. How can we get back to that north star? How can we get back to it? We've got this thing called pandemic, got these challenges." And it made them more innovative, more creative, and and they got back on track. Was still challenging, but it meant they were all working together with momentum, with energy, with focus, and and it's using that purpose. And I think, for me, that can be done in an individual perspective, but also can be done from a team perspective as well. So, getting clarity on purpose really is is is vital for building, or maintaining, that resilient approach.
Jimmy: What you're saying essentially is that one of the keys to being resilient is actually stepping out of the immediate situation that's going on, and getting back to the purpose of why we're doing what we're doing in the first place, and then that gives you the energy, and the drive, and the resilience to push through those challenging circumstances, because you're thinking about the bigger picture versus the immediate, maybe chaotic situation that you're sitting in.
Julian: Yeah. No, no. Totally. And I It because I think with with resilience, the thing is, it's you need to be creative. You need to be innovative. You know, if you're going to re-establish something new, and you've been knocked down, or you can't get through something, you got to do it differently. Fact of life is you have to do it differently, and the the way to step back and to look at the bigger picture is a way of creating that, because it makes you think, "Okay. We need to get from here to here. Uh what else can we do?" And it just starts to create those solutions, those ideas, and when you do that as a team, it's really helpful. And I think that's, for me, one of the core sort of principles I would always advocate, is is get clarity on your purpose, individually, but also as a as a team, or an organisation.
Jimmy: So, let's explore that a little bit deeper. How How does one get clear on one's purpose? I know that sits in in my body of work as well, so I'm always fascinated on on other people's perspectives. How would you take somebody through getting clear on their purpose, and take a team through getting clear on their purpose?
Julian: Yes. Heh-heh! It depends how long we've got here. But um There's a number of ways. I mean, we we know purpose is all about finding something that resonates with you deep in the core of who you are, you know, what what your passion, something you would do that you don't feel is it's not not requires any work. You You love doing it. Spen- All those things, and and it's about asking those questions from an individual perspective. Uh, I also do um a technique from an individual perspective called logical levels with NLP, uh and it goes from an envi- externally environment all the way down to your core of who you are, your identity, uh and it's a nice good process. And I take my clients individually through that, and along the way, they discover a bit more of their behaviours, their values, who they are, what their mission is, and then ultimately, what their purpose is. But, I think we've got to be careful on this. Cause, people get caught up on creating perfection and creating utopia. "And, I've got to find my purpose." And, you know, I know Simon Sinek talks a lot about the uh uh knowing your why. But, I I feel it's sometimes also an iterative process. And, you know, for me, as long as you've got some sense and and direction of what that might be, just start to act upon that and start moving forward, rather than waiting for "I've got it completely now, and I know exactly what it is." Because I don't think you never know until you actually start engaging in things. And, you realise, actually, when you do start engaging in stuff, this resonates with me. You know, I didn't think, you know, my my purpose is is core is at my core is unlocking leadership potential and creating resilient uh people and teams. Now, I didn't know that six years ago, specifically, as unlocking. I just had this sense of I knew I had to I had this ability to unlock people's potential. But, that didn't form until I started to do it, and I realised when I do do it, it doesn't feel like work. I love it. I'm passionate about it. I'm thirsty. I'm hungry for it. Uh, and, also, I'm good at it, as well. And so, that's, some for me, is almost get some indication, and then start trying things out and start giving things different a go. Um, from a team perspective, it's a little bit more a longer process in terms of working with a team, getting them to sort of pan out what's things happening in five, 10 years time, and just trying to take them a little bit beyond themselves really. I think it's, you know, cause I think people get caught up with, you know, you If Example is, you know, Tesla. You know, people think of Tesla as, you know, their mission is to um be the number one electric car company. Actually, their mission is not that. Their mission is to to accelerate the world's view on renewable energies. Now, that is far bigger than being number one car manufacturer, and it's far more inspiring, and far more giving, and it's far more It's just big It's just huge, in some sense. It's far bigger than the company itself. It's not about just making cars. And, I think it's, you know, getting to that point where you take that a process where you start thinking that bigger, rather than just saying, "We just want to make more money. We just want to be the number one car manufacturer." Whatever it may is, just go beyond that. And because I think, for me, purpose, there's an element of giving and community that come out of it. I think there's a sense of it's bigger than you and it's bigger than your company.
Jimmy: Hey there, Jimmy here. Hope you're well. I just wanted to drop into this podcast and let you know that my new book, Beat Burnout Ignite Performance: The Leader's Playbook for Building a High-Performance Culture is going to be released very soon. And if you haven't already, head over to my website and grab yourself the first chapter of the book, absolutely free. The address you want to go to is beatburnout.jimmyburroughes.com/book, and you can download that first free chapter to get you interested and excited about the topic of purpose. And the reason we're giving it away for free is because we think that purpose is the single most important factor for beating burnout. And we want to get it into as many hands as possible. So, head over to beatburnout.jimmyburroughes.com/book. Grab Beat Burnout, Ignite Performance: The Leader's Playbook for Building a High-Performance Culture and enjoy reading.
Jimmy: You touched on some gems there, and definitely some pieces that really resonate with me. I like that idea, when you said it, you know when you're working on purpose when it doesn't feel like work. And Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, Csikszentmihalyi's, excuse the pronunciation, work on flow is also very similar. It's that sort of when you almost lose track of time, when you realise you've been doing this for hours and you didn't notice the time passing, then you're probably working in your zone of purpose. And for listeners to try and identify what that is, the question we also ask is, "Why were you put on this planet?" And it amazes me, I I don't know if you've found the same thing, it amazes me how few people have actually spent the time pondering that question. They're so busy in the doing, the day-to-day doing, that they don't get into the uh the deep thinking of, "Well, what actually am I here for?" And, is the work I'm doing on purpose, or is it just paying the bills? And And that can be a real shifting point when people realise, how does what I do connect with my purpose for being on this planet? Then we start to also uh enable some more resilience factors, right? Because they can say, "Well, actually, I'm able to push through. I can see the point in doing this versus I'm just paying my bills." It's It's the bigger-than-me thing, right?
Julian: Well, yeah. In- In often encompasses people term in the phrase helping. There's a helping phrase usually comes out of a purpose statement. You know, I work with a wealth manager, and and yes, they want to make money. That's why they're sort of in it, but actually, the purpose of this guy was, "I want to help people be sustainable in their financial, and, you know." That He was far bigger than just, "I want to make money from somebody." Actually, "I want to help people do well with their money, invest it well, uh leave a legacy, etc, etc." And, therefore, it becomes And it's really good. When you get aligned to your purpose and you start talking to people, having conversations with potential clients, or even friends, there's no sense of salesyness, cause you're just It's just bigger than you, and it's usually a general sense of helping, and you've got an intent to help that person. You know, I go to networking events, and my intention is to connect and help people. You know, oh and people say, "Oh, you should have a ten- intention to make make get make connections, and, you know, get some business." That will work its out its out itself. It really will. If I'm there genuinely, I'll connect with the right people. They'll sense that connection, and they'll sense that I want to help them, and if they think I can help them, then let's have a conversation. That's fine.
Jimmy: And And I think that's how you and I connected initially was just a an open conversation around the idea of podcasting, and you're obviously a much more successful podcaster and far further down the track than than I am. But it was that, yeah, I genuinely felt that energetic connection of, "Well, if we can help, then then we can support each other, and there's some value to be gained from that." I want to shift tack slightly and talk about some of the things that might be some real challenges to our personal and team resilience. Where are the things that may really put us under some pressure or stress that you see consistently come up time and again that, once we're aware of, potentially we can start to deal with?
Julian: I think the big one that surprise, and it might not be a surprise to anybody who's listening right now that comes up a lot, is people try to control everything. And, you know, I do this great thing where somebody's getting stressed out about a certain scenario, and I then say, "Write everything down that's really frustrating about this scenario, this situation." And this can be done in a team, can be done an individual. And then, I say, "Circle the stuff that you're in control of." And then, they realise that that list is quite small, and then, and you see that like look on the face, and they go, "Okay. That's why I'm getting stressed. I'm trying to control something I can't control." And I think that's one of the biggest realisations of of why people get stressed, why people get overwhelmed, is they try to either control people, or scenarios that they have no control of. And it doesn't mean we don't plan. Doesn't mean we don't influence, and all that. I'm not saying that. But, you know, work out, what can you truly control? And, more often than not, it's only the things that are involved in you, and controlling how we react, controlling how we respond, uh control the actions you take to- today that will be for tomorrow. Uh, and, you know, I think it's the um the SAS work on, or the the Marines, you're a you're ex-military anyway, so you probably know this better than me. They work on a principle of, you know, work on your next 1 m². Because that's all you're in control of. You know, if you're going to do a a marathon, it's you know, I do a bit of visualisation work, yes, focus on the end a little bit, but actually, the only bit you're in control of is a present moment, and that's that 1 m². Worry about that, and it's about the process. And, I think that's where people get caught up. They try and get go onto the future, uh and and they things they just cannot control. So, that I would say is the number one thing that gets in people's way is they try and control things they can't control.
Jimmy: That's so fascinating. The control your 1 m², I I recently read an article about a 100-mi race through a 1/2-mi tunnel, and I think it is in Italy. I'm not 100% sure. But, the article was all about just putting one foot in front of another for 100 mi, because, you know, just running 1/2 mi through a dark tunnel where you can't really see the other end until you're almost halfway through it, and then you get to the end, and you just turn back, and you have, essentially, 200 opportunities to drop out, because there's a there's a refreshment stop at either end, and you can stop anytime you like, because there's only 1/2 mi to the next stop. And the he talked all about the resilience, the mental resilience of just, "I've just got to get to the the other end, and then I've just got to get to the other end, and I'll just keep doing that until this is over." Just pushing through. One But But, I think there's a real challenge as well when we look at resilience versus burnout, because one of the things that, one of the the danger signs of resilience is I'm overly resilient, and then I keep pushing, and I keep pushing, and I keep pushing, and it's almost a misinterpretation of what resilience is, which is, "I've got to keep going." How would you give our listeners advice to spot that fine line for being resilient versus almost being pedantic or pushing too hard and risking their their health and burnout?
Julian: Yeah, you make a a really good point actually, cuz I I think sometimes resilience, certainly in the last few years, has been portrayed, probably, in a toxic context, and all about keeping going and pushing through, and if you give up, you're a loser, and you've got to find a way, and all that sort of stuff. Um, I I I listened to a a podcast uh I can't remember who it is, or somebody on a podcast, and they talked about the greatest gamblers are the ones who can fold the best. So, I think you have to get to a place where, sometimes, and this, whether it's just starting a business, pursuing a sort of commercial opportunity in a business, whatever it may be, comes a point where sometimes you need to just quit. And, quitting is deemed as quite a negative overtones, uh over- undertone, whatever. Uh, and I think, actually, it's not actually. It's rather using that as an opportunity to see some feedback and some insights. And, I often say to a lot of my clients, "What What's the wisdom at the moment, at this point?" And, you know, whether If they're pushing through something, and it's just not getting any break through, you know, "What is the inner wisdom? Ask yourself, what's the wisdom at this point? Is it to to stop, and that's okay?" But, by stopping, you're going to do something else. So, in some ways, you're not giving up, you're just going to do something else, and switch your focus, switch your energy. And, I think it's important to have that language, that actually folding is a positive in a card game, and they're the ones who do make the sort of the big wins, the big bets. Actually, we need to, sometimes, fold things in our lives and move on to something else, and just switch our energies. And that's okay. And it's at each point of life, is then just to make sure, you know, you What have you What are you learning? So, every opportunity, and it sounds very cliché, uh but it is true. And, I think it's taking that time out to reflect and to learn, uh before you move on to whatever that might be. And it might be a change of direction, and everything else. So, yeah. Learn to to be a quitter, sometimes.
Jimmy: Ha! But I'm smiling in a in a wry way, because there's so many so many things that where we are so aligned here. It's that concept of not being sucked in by the sunk cost fallacy of, "Well, I've put all this time and energy into this, so I probably should keep going." And actually, the reality is, yeah, it might be the smarter, more resilient move to let this one go, so we allow ourselves to bounce back and be ready for the next thing, because that resilience is almost the the bendy stick, or um the ability to come back from being knocked over, so you go, "Well, actually, I'm going to lose this battle to win that war," is a is a much more resilient response. No, I think that's really beautiful. The and I love also what you mentioned there around the idea of, "What are we learning here?" I did a a poll recently on LinkedIn around, where are senior leaders spending their time? And 0% of our leaders said they spent the majority of their time reflecting in deep thinking. And that was concerning to me. Because the reality of this is that, as a senior leader, a lot of your time should be spent reflecting on, is this the best thing for us to be doing? What's the next best thing for us to be doing? And, how do we bring that to life for those people around me? But we don't do that. Why do you think that is? Why do you think that we're not spending our time doing resilient, deep thinking to make sure that we're not going down tracks where we're maybe flogging a dead horse, or in the sunk cost fallacy, or whatever it might be?
Julian: I think cause we're caught up with this thing called doing all the time, and activity, and hitting goals, and making ourselves look we're busy and doing things, and all after it, all those sort of sort terminology. And, you know, we're call human beings, and I think not let's be more being and be more present. You know, that that 1 m² we talked about from an army sort of military perspective, is all about being present in the moment. Uh, and, I think, you know, it's a shame. I know CEOs and senior leaders do get caught up with what they have to do, and they've got responsibilities. But actually, you know, this is why, you know, I'm an advocate of coaching, because I I coach, but and yourself. But, actually, those moments when I'm working with a CEO, that is probably the probably the best time they're actually are reflecting, because there's somebody there who's facilitating, and helping them, and and actually, at that moment, they're probably thinking things through, and I often get moments with with my clients where, actually, I've not really said an awful lot. I've just listened, and created an environment that where they can share, and be feel safe. Um, and actually, they work it out for themselves, and then they go, "Oh, thanks for that." And, I'm thinking, "I just listened." And, I asked a few questions, but it's they've reflected, and I think it's sometimes reflecting out loud. And I, you know, I always try and, you know, coaching for me is all about empowering people, you know, and I want to, you know, instill a lot with my clients, that they can facilitate that for them for themselves, you know, find ways to go out and think a bit more, you know, whether that's mountain biking, whether that's going in the sea, swimming, or whatever it may, find your way that where you reflect and get those moments. Um, you know, it's it's it's really important. And, it's I think it's a it's one of those things you have to sort of do it to see the impact, and see how that starts to ref- impact your uh how you act with people, and how you see the results of your impacts. And, you know, I often say to my clients, sort of leaders, spend more time just listening to people, and you'll find, actually, you'll get a lot more done, because they'll just feel valued, listened to. They'll share stuff, and, actually, probably come up with their own ideas themselves. Uh, and you'll just, you know, gently guide them and steer them, rather than having to think about you have to know everything. And, I think we're in that sort of culture or society of CEO needs to know everything. You don't. You won't, period, really, uh and just sort of get over it, and move on from it, really.
Jimmy: So, some some three top tips there then would be uh, let go of things that aren't serving you, listen more to your people, and spend more time reflecting if you want to be more resilient. Would that be a an appropriate summary of what we've talked about?
Julian: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, fantastic. Heh-heh-heh! I couldn't say that any better myself, Jimmy.
Jimmy: Amazing. And And if all of our listeners do those three things, then magically, they'll become more resilient, and their businesses will start to perform better, we hope. That's the goal, right? No, I find it intriguing as well, often facilitating senior leadership teams. It's almost less about the facilitation and more about holding the space for them to just sit and think, and be off the hamster wheel of delivery. And it can be very easy for executive teams and senior leadership teams to end up in the high tempo of doing versus the thinking about, how do how do we, as a team, lead the business as a functional executive versus being a group of business unit leaders who come together and do a whip meeting once a week, or whatever it might be. Yeah, no, absolutely fascinating. Julian, I also know that, I mentioned a little bit previously, um you have a an excellent podcast. Do you want to tell us a little bit about it?
Julian: Yeah, yeah. I've It's been going three years this August. Um, it's um all It's called Helping Organisations Thrive, and it's all about bringing on people, and yourself going to come on it as well, talking about leadership, talking about resilience, and I have people like yourself, or experts within sort of burnout through to youngest rower uh across the Atlantic, uh through to Paralympians, all sorts of people, inspiring people as well in terms of uh leadership, resilience, and it's um, yeah, something I I'm very passionate about. I love the conversations, and uh, yeah, do take a listen.
Jimmy: Amazing. We'll pop a link in the show notes below this episode for you to hop across and listen to to Julian's amazing podcast. Julian, if people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to reach out?
Julian: Uh, you can use LinkedIn. Type in my name. And uh, a bearded man will come up, and you might um so Julian Roberts, you'll you'll see me there. Or go to my website, julianrobertsconsulting.com.
Jimmy: Fantastic. Thank you so much. And final question, as we wrap up, is what's something you wish you had always done, but never got around to doing?
Julian: Oof! Yeah. I know you asked me before, and I'm I'm still trying to think. I get I guess, for me, I the the getting into the world of coaching, psychology, and it's it's not it's not not like a regret, but because I love what I do now. But, I I wish I'd gone and done more this 20 years ago, an and sense of got dived into psychology more, uh and perhaps I would have been fascinated to learn a bit more about clinical psychology and be a a clinical psychologist, and just being a bit more aware of that more sort of the mental health side of things, and have had that experience um really. Uh, I find, you know, you know, obviously, I'm I'm in the world of coaching. At times, it becomes therapy, and obviously, I'm not a therapist, and we pull it back. Um, but I I feel that I I would have loved to perhaps explored that whole therapy area. I mean, there's, I could still do it now, but um there's a lot of energy and time to do that. And, I I think what I do now is is is great, and I love the impact I have. But, I think that's for me, 20 years ago, be a psychologist, clinical psychologist, an exposure, and helping people perhaps with some difficulties, you know. You know, I foster, as well, so people who have had trauma and stuff like that, and and that, I have a sort of a bit of a compassion for that. And so, I think that would have been a good course of action, um rather than what I did. But, that's yeah. Not it's a regret, but it's not a yeah, that's that's yeah, there we go.
Jimmy: Not necessarily a regret, just an alternate path that you could have gone down.
Julian: Yes, indeed.
Jimmy: Wonderful. Julian, thank you so much for joining us, for sharing your knowledge and wisdom around the field and realm of resilience, and also giving us some really practical tips and case studies of where you've actually worked on that with teams. Really appreciate your time today. Thanks for joining us.
Julian: Thank you, Jimmy, for having us. Really enjoyed it. Great conversation.
Jimmy: That's it for this week's episode of The Ways of Working podcast. If you enjoyed the conversation here, why not head over to jimmyburroughes.com/book, and grab chapter one of our amazing upcoming book, Beat Burnout, Ignite Performance. It's the leader's playbook for building a high-performance culture. So, if you're looking for practical tips, and to understand why people in your team or yourself are burning out, and what to do about it so you can all keep working and perform better, this is the place for you. Go to jimmyburroughes.com/book, and grab that first chapter. We'll also keep you posted when the full book is released very soon. Also, if you enjoyed this episode of The Ways of Working podcast, don't forget to follow or subscribe on your preferred podcast platform of choice. And we'll make sure that you get all of the upcoming episodes as they come out every single week. Take care. Speak soon.